CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Congressman James Clyburn

Interview

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HILL: Yeah. Important questions that are pretty easy to answer.

Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

Joining me now, the third highest-ranking Democrat in the House, Congressman James Clyburn.

Congressman, good to see you today. We saw the president today --

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Thank you.

HILL: As far as we know, he's still recovering from COVID. We don't know about a negative test. He did invite hundreds to this event at the White House.

Yes, he was up on a balcony. We saw them there, though. We know coronavirus is a top issue for Americans, for obvious reasons.

What do you think the message is that we got from the president today?

CLYBURN: Well, I think it's still all about him. I think the American people have come to realize that this president does not have the capacity to even sympathize, least most to empathize.

It would seem that now that he has contracted the virus, he ought to have a certain amount of empathy for what people are going through, not just to focus on the 214,000 deaths but the people who are infected, people who are in nursing homes, people who are in hospitals and other places. It seemed to me that this president ought to be focusing on them, not his campaign, not his supporters, bringing them to the White House and talking about himself. That is just the kind of thing that ought to awaken the American people to what this is all about.

We have just lost basic goodness coming from the White House. It is one thing to have political differences, but when you have the kind of a problem that we have in this country today, we ought to be bringing ourselves together. We ought to be expressing a certain amount of empathy for those people who are suffering.

This president seems not to have the capacity to do anything but focus on himself. That is a strange illness that all of us should be aware is costing this country dearly.

HILL: This virus has disproportionately impacted communities of color, African-Americans, Latinos, Native Americans.

This event today was specifically for African-Americans and Latinos. But I didn't hear anything from the president addressing the disproportionate impact on these communities.

How do you think that could change things if we heard more of that, more of that recognition?

CLYBURN: I think that all of us know that what this virus has done has exacerbated problems that existed for a long time. When we went about the business of trying to put the Affordable Care Act together, we were focusing on the fact that there are people who are born with juvenile diabetes, for instance, that needed to be focused on, women with breast cancer and some men as well, and men with prostate cancer, having their insurance taken away from them as soon as they got sick.

We were focusing on what we needed to do to make this country's greatness accessible and affordable for everybody. And I don't understand why the president would have an event focusing on minority communities, black and brown, and not mention what it's all about.

He should be telling them exactly what he is going to do to get rid of these disparities that exist in our system, in our healthcare system, in our education system, in the affordability of energy.

[16:10:10]

These disparities are there. And COVID-19 has exacerbated these disparities and it would seem to me that the president would be saying to them, this is what my election will mean to the elimination of these disparities. He did not do that simply because he does not have the capacity to empathize with what these communities are experiencing in this particular pandemic.

HILL: Congressman, I also want to get your take on a couple of other things we've seen throughout the week. So, on Friday, of course, we heard from Speaker Pelosi, who announced legislation to create a commission that would determine whether the president is fit to do his job under the 25th Amendment. We look at this, the reality is this is not something that is going to pass as we know right now.

Is this a more political theory? I mean, what's really behind this, especially 24 days out from the election? What does this achieve?

CLYBURN: Well, if my memory serves, Jamie Raskin presented this, what, a year or maybe more ago. And this was just a restatement or re -- bringing attention back to a piece of legislation he's been dealing with for a long time.

I don't know of anybody, and I suspect Jamie being the constitutional professor -- constitutional law professor that he is, wants to bring attention to the fact that this pandemic has exposed some real gaps in our process as well. It's not just about health, education, and welfare. It's about the Constitution.

The Constitution is silent on so many things that the Founding Fathers did not take into account, and that is what happens in a situation like we have now? People are worried as to if this president decides, as he keeps saying, refused to say that he will not to have a peaceful transition or a transfer if he loses the election, the Constitution doesn't tell us what to do.

And so, that's all this thing that Jamie Raskin and Speaker Pelosi was focused on, so the American people can understand that once we get beyond this election, there's some serious things we got to sit down and do because history ought to be instructive here. We have never had anything like this.

I don't think we have had this kind of insensitivity in the White House, maybe since Woodrow Wilson. And so, people just have got to focus of what we need to do not to have their problems with this democracy that's being challenging to us at this particular juncture. That is what they were doing, calling out to the American people's attention so that as soon as we get into this next Congress, we have to do some other things outside of dealing with COVID-19 as a health problem. We got to see what we should do to maintain the integrity of this democracy.

HILL: As we -- as we look forward as well, listen, plenty of Americans, what they would like to see done right now is some form of stimulus, as you know. There are millions of Americans across this country who are hurting. The president reversing course after shutting down stimulus talks, now saying he wants to go big.

We do know that Speaker Pelosi in a letter to you and your fellow House Democrats said the White House's latest proposal amounts to one step forward, two steps back. Sources telling us there are more than 20 Republican senators who are also opposed to what the White House has pitched. In response, Mark Meadows has reported said that he's going to have to bring that back to the president and, quote, you will all have to come to my funeral.

Listen, for the American people right now, they're tired of politics. They're tired of the back and forth, do you believe that this president actually wants to negotiate at this point, and are you hopeful that something could happen?

CLYBURN: Oh, I'm hopeful that something could happen but I do believe this president is once again playing games with the American people. I don't think he wants to solve this problem. He is trying to create as many pressures on the system as he can possibly create.

COVID-19 gives him an excuse to create pressures. He wants confusion. He doesn't want to see people in this country have any kind of order in their lives.

He wishes to be law and order. It's all about him.

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That's -- he's never going to agree to legislation that will help people living on Main Street, on side street or these other places where we need to get our rural hospitals and community health centers to working on behalf of the American people. He's not going to do that.

HILL: Congressman --

CLYBURN: He wants to see -- yes?

HILL: I want to -- I want to pick up on it. You mentioned law and order, and we're tight on time but I really want to get your take on this because we hear that so much, as you pointed out, from the president. He talks about law and order.

What we saw unfold in Michigan, what we learned about, this alleged plot in Michigan to kidnap the governor, to overthrow several state governments, to instigate a civil war, according to the complaint there, we have not heard anything from the attorney general condemning this, and he, at one point, of course, wanted to change -- charge rather riot-related defendants with sedition. What does the American public need to hear right now from the attorney

general in terms of this plot that was foiled?

CLYBURN: Well, there's a good reason you have not heard anything from the attorney general, because he's complicit in all of this. This attorney general -- everything he proposes, it is to bring chaos.

I wish people would just take the time and pick up Martin Luther King Jr.'s last book, "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?"

I see so much of what this attorney general is doing, what this president is doing, it's to destroy communities and to create chaos. They are complicit in all of this.

Why else would the president get the message of what has just happened to the governor of a state and he does not condemn that kind of activity. Instead, talks about her being a bad governor.

All of that gives license for this to occur. This attorney general is simply a -- let's just say, he is this president's toy.

HILL: Congressman James Clyburn, appreciate you joining us this afternoon. Thank you.

CLYBURN: Thanks for having me.

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