CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Sheila Jackson Lee and Eleanor Holmes Norton
Interview
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Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee and Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton. Appreciate both of you being with us.
Congresswoman Jackson Lee, I wonder your thoughts are as you reflect on this candidacy.
REP. SHEILA JACKSON-LEE (D-TX): Well, we're making history tonight joining myself with a great leader herself, Eleanor Holmes Norton, I am delighted to be with her.
There was much reflection, but a lot of tears and a lot of reflection on the history of what we are making today.
What I would say is that so many women have tried to climb that mountain top that Dr. Martin Luther King spoke of in the early 1800s searching the truth, tried to move into the suffragette movement.
We know Madam C.J. Walker tried to be a businesswoman. We know of Shirley Chisholm, Barbara Jordan, and Fannie Lou Hamer.
I think today, it is evident that there is an affirmation not only black women, but women of Southeast Asia, women of color that they have finally reached a status where they are affirmed in this nation as equal partners and this mountain that we've all been trying to climb, Kamala has taken us to the mountain top.
It's an enormously important moment and it's based upon her own history and talent as she led such a large department in the A.G.'s office, 4,800 staff and a $700 million budget. It has now been affirmed that women can lead.
COOPER: Congresswoman Norton, I guess the same question to you, which is a couple weeks past Congressman John Lewis's funeral, of course. We're seeing racial inequalities in American society, you know, clearly in the forefront of people's minds. What does Senator Harris on the ticket mean to you?
DELEGATE ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D-DC): Well, Anderson, they have thrown out or at least Biden threw out the old playbook where you look to balancing the ticket for instance, geographically, well, she is from California, she is going to get that state anyway.
So he wanted a new way to quote "balance the ticket." He wanted to make history, and that's what he has done. We have had white women on the ticket. We have never had an African-American woman and he also needed to excite the ticket.
We hear -- below the surface, we hear the notion that he has got a lot of support, but the excitement is not yet there. I think this woman will bring excitement that the ticket needs.
She went to Howard University, I have to say representing the District of Columbia, so there is a very special pride in that and it also shows that Biden is a very big man. He doesn't hold grudges because none of his opponents went at him in quite the way that Kamala Harris did.
[20:30:10]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Congresswoman Jackson Lee, you've worked with Senator Harris on criminal justice reform. You know, there are some in the Black Lives Matter movement, for instance, who may look at some younger people in particular who may look at her record as a district attorney and say, well, you know, they would have liked to have seen her do more on criminal justice reform when she was part of the system. What do you say to that argument to convince people otherwise?
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Well, first of all, we have to know that Kamala was both a local prosecutor Cindy Harris, as well as an attorney general. I look to the fact that she won the state of California with progressives and moderates and in between. And that she ran this enormous department. But what I saw when policy became her purview. Soon as she walked into the United States Senate, we began to work on her passion bail reform, to not hold people unnecessarily that had not been prosecuted. She began to work on mandatory minimums and sentencing reduction and ultimately prison reform and working on incarcerated women. And frankly, join me on the Juneteenth holiday.
When she had the chance to engage in policy, she was astute, well informed, and she had the passion of knowing the history of her heritage. And by the way, she joined a sorority, and that's a big deal happens to be Alpha Kappa Alpha. She had a holistic view to her service. And that service was when there were problems. When there was problems in the criminal justice system. She had no fear in bringing her policy and her knowledge of criminal justice law or criminal law to the table of reform. That's what I like about Senator Harris. She was prepared to tackle this head on. And she didn't allow her past history of being a prosecutor to stop her from being merciful and changing the laws.
COOPER: Congresswoman Norton, it's, you know, it's interesting that we earlier Nia-Malika Henderson were saying, was commenting that some people today have been saying, well, this was a safe choice for him. It's kind of the expected choice. She was pointing out, look, this is a risky choice that there is still systemic racism, there is still, you know, this is a barrier that has not been broken. And do you think the country is ready?
NORTON: For an African-American woman?
COOPER: Yes.
NORTON: Oh, I believe so. I believe so. Because the, the country seems to have tired of the same old way to approach the presidency. And if you are Joe Biden, you need to show that you are not from the old school. If you one way to show you're not from the old school is to choose an African-American woman. We have seen that women who by the way, the reason we took back the House of Representatives are driving this election cycle. And when you consider the what has been in the streets about DA and reform, fallen George Floyd's murder, I think that Kamala Harris can turn on its head, her role as a GA. To be sure she did some reforming of the DAs role, but here where that role is at the top of the consciousness, she will be able to say I know exactly what to do now that the streets have been taken over by people who want just the kind of reform she has had experience in and can lead further.
COOPER: Congresswoman Jackson Lee, the -- you know, it's one thing to -- she has run a national campaign unsuccessfully but she has also run very tough campaigns and face, she's been in the arena for a while now and she's, you know, one gets better. The more you -- the more you're out there, the more your campaign when you're in the game. How important you think that is and how important you think that was for Vice President Biden to know that he was picking somebody who had experienced in the ruffled -- rough and tumble of not only that had she been vetted, but it just in the rough and tumble of day to day campaigning.
JACKSON LEE: Anderson, that is why this is also so doubly significant. Because those of us who know Joe Biden and know his heart and I've seen him work his great effort as part of his legislative agenda was the Violence Against Women Act. Know that he has always affirmed women. But he knows that this is having been through a number of campaigns himself. This is not a party, and as evidenced by the first words from President Trump negative words about the relationship between the President, Vice President and Senator Harris, as it related to the debate. She has been in the rough and tumble, she can respond very clearly in attacks that will come against her.
[20:35:40]
The good news is in her own presidential campaign, she reached suburban women, urban and rural areas. She didn't leave any area out and she was as gracious and engaging in all of those areas. She will be an asset in the outreach to those communities and women being over 51% but more importantly, in the hard knocks of politics and campaigning, I think Senator Harris will astutely be able to handle but we'll come at it. They will use the vice presidency against Joe Biden. The Trump campaign will do so, they're doing so now, but she is knowledgeable in Intel, knowledgeable in judiciary and the issues of law. And I think she will be far ready for that campaign.
COOPER: Yes. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, Eleanor Holmes Norton, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
NORTON: Thanks.
JACKSON LEE: Thanks for having me.
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