MSNBC "Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell - Transcript Interview with Amy Klobuchar

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Senator Klobuchar, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

And can I borrow --

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thank you. Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: -- can I borrow your expertise as a former district attorney

yourself, to just referee this little distinction here, where a district

attorney stands up and refers to a witness as being a state`s witness -- by

which I think we know he means he intends to call the witness. And then the

police officer`s lawyer says, well, he`s not going to be a witness for or

against anyone, which is true of any witness. That`s the textbook

definition of witness.

And it seems like he`s trying to get him out of the image of being

basically turning against the other police officer.

Is that -- is that your sense of what we`re watching here?

KLOBUCHAR: It appears that that`s what happened. But I go back to the

district attorney`s words and that is that a witness is a witness. They

have to tell the truth. They are under oath. Whatever the testimony is, it

is.

And clearly the district attorney believes that this system will be helpful

and will get at the truth -- what we all saw on that video.

And I think one of the things I found interesting in listening to that

discussion, Lawrence, is that one of the things we want to break down here

is this culture. There are a lot of good cops out there. And I think we all

know them.

And they are brought down by this kind of behavior where you have people

like what happened in my state with the murder of George Floyd, when you

have police officers that are basically on video committing murder.

And that is why we`re working so hard right now to get this bill passed

that would basically put standards in place that good police officers will

meet to ban chokeholds, to have accountability and transparency so we know

what people`s records are, if there is misconduct, so they can`t go from

one police department to another.

And I think you know people are crying out for this change right now, and

this is our moment to make that change.

O`DONNELL: Senator, there is a big gap between the Republican legislation

that was introduced in the Senate this week and the legislation that`s

being moved by the Democrats in the House of Representatives, which would

be close to what the Senate Democrats want. Is this one of those instances

where you just -- in the end, you vote for the bill on the Senate floor to

get into a conference with the House so that you then can try to work out a

final bill in compromise with the House of Representatives?

KLOBUCHAR: You know, I think it is way too soon to talk about what

procedure is being used, but we can`t just have a bill that does nothing. I

think that has happened too many times where people are just voicing

platitudes and saying, "Oh, we want to make this better," and they never

really do. People are not going to tolerate that anymore --Democrats,

Republicans.

And I just think Donald Trump is so out of touch as are some of our

Republican colleagues on this if they don`t see that this is a moment to

save lives, to build trust between the police and the community by making

these sensible reforms.

And I just don`t think that we can sell out for nothing here. We`ve got to

have substantial reform. And it can happen at the local and state level,

but it can really happen at the federal level.

Anyone that watched that videotape and saw George Floyd`s life evaporate

between our -- before our eyes really understands that if we answer this

with silence, we are complicit. If we answer it with what the president`s

call dominance as he waived the bible for a photo-op in front of that

church, well, then we`re monsters.

But if we answer it with action, as I told my colleagues on the floor

yesterday, if we answer it with action, then we`re lawmakers, and that`s

what we were sent to Washington to do.

O`DONNELL: Senator Klobuchar, what is the future of this issue in the

Democratic presidential campaign? Do you expect it to be a front and center

issue in the presidential campaign?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, of course, it will be. But I think one of the things that

you`ve seen is this is a part of a larger issue with this president. His

reaction today on the historic ruling for Dreamers -- people aren`t against

Dreamers. They`re just not against them but Donald Trump certainly is.

People who know no other country but America, people who have gone to

school here, who work here, who have jobs here, and he spends his day

tweeting out against personal grievances against the Supreme Court, a

conservative Supreme Court where Justice Roberts has to step in and say

what the president did was basically wrong and that we need to have -- we

need to have a process that works for the Dreamers.

So I just think this is part of what you have seen over and over again

where when you talk about the presidential campaign, you are going to have

Joe Biden, who is someone who is competent, when you look at what`s

happened with the pandemic and how the president failed to get ahead of it

and now we`re seeing in this forthcoming book by Mr. Bolton that this was a

president that actually reached out to the president of China to ask for

help in his re-election campaigns when we`re dealing with the fact that he

was not tough enough on China when this started, when we did -- he didn`t

get ahead of this. He wasn`t able to get the vaccine going like we should

have or the protective equipment out.

And then you have Joe Biden who helped and led the way to manage the Ebola

pandemic, as someone who made sure that the money got out there in the

right way when we had the last downturn. It`s going to be a complete

contrast in this presidential campaign, including, of course, on the issue

of race.

O`DONNELL: Senator, we`re probably seven or eight weeks away from Joe Biden

making a choice for the vice presidential slot. Should Joe Biden return to

Minnesota as Democrats have in the past, choosing Democratic Senator

Humphrey from Minnesota for vice president, then choosing Walter Mondale

for vice president?

Is there -- what case would you make at this point in the campaign for

senior senator from Minnesota as the vice presidential candidate?

KLOBUCHAR: You know, Lawrence, I have never, as you probably know, in many,

many shows, since I endorsed the vice president in that joyful night in

Dallas, I never commented on this process at all.

But let me tell you this, after what I have seen in my state, what I have

seen across the country -- this is a historic moment and America must seize

on this moment. And I truly believe as I actually told the vice president

last night when I called him that I think this is a moment to put a woman

of color on that ticket, and there are so many incredibly qualified women.

But if you want to heal this nation right now, my party, yes, but our

nation, this is sure a hell of a way to do it. And that`s just what I think

after being through this in my state.

O`DONNELL: Senator Klobuchar, we`re now three weeks since the murder of

George Floyd in Minneapolis in your state. Clearly, you`ve been going

through a lot of thinking about what that means in terms of your

responsibilities as a senator, what it means to your state.

How much has that influenced and how much of these last few weeks

influenced what you have just told us that you want to withdraw? And

apparently you`re saying you told Vice President Biden last night that you

want to withdraw from consideration as a possible vice presidential

candidate.

KLOBUCHAR: I did, and he was kind. And, by the way, I thought if I talk

(ph) to him, it would really be nice to have a kind president in the White

House. But for me, I have to, one, help my state to heal. This was a huge

tragedy in my state, and I have a lot of work to do.

Tomorrow morning, I`m meeting with our African-American ministers about

voting rights and the bill that I`m leading on that in the Senate. I`m in a

unique position as a senior member, as you point out, of the Judiciary

Committee to help usher this police reform through and work with my state.

And as I sat at George Floyd`s memorial, as I talked to people across this

country, in the last few weeks, yes, I came to this conclusion. And I think

it would be taking what has been a tragedy, but yet this moment of

galvanizing force across this country and taking it and unifying our

country, but also doing it in a joyful way, by putting someone of color on

this ticket.

And you think about the past. You think about with Juneteenth coming up

tomorrow. You think about the past with slavery. You think about the fact

that in today`s world, African-American women can still go into a maternity

ward in New Orleans and say, "our hands are swollen" and no one listens --

pregnant woman, and she loses her baby.

You think of the immigrant people that have been working on those front

lines in the hospitals and at the grocery stores and driving those busses

and how they have been overwhelmingly hit by the pandemic.

These are things that have been magnified that have always existed in such

a big way. And I think one way you get at it and seize this historical

moment and turn what has been probably the most difficult year in our

country`s history since, I don`t know, World War II, if you take it and you

put that into something that would be of such joy, with so many of my

friends and colleagues that would be qualified for this job, I think you

could make something like we have never seen and show the world what

America is rally all about. That`s the conclusion I reached, Lawrence.

(CROSSTALK)

O`DONNELL: Senator Klobuchar, you are giving us the positive case for a

woman of color on the ticket. But as you considered your own prospects in

the last few weeks, did you have concerns about your own record as a

prosecutor in Minneapolis and how that might be dragged into the campaign

and into the possible -- what -- how you could function as a vice

presidential candidate?

KLOBUCHAR: I think I could have functioned fine and there`s a lot of

untruths out there about my record. And now is not the time to debate

those. Some things that have been put out on there, on disreputable sites

and passed through the Internet. And that`s just what life is in politics.

But I don`t think we should be taking this moment to have those kind of

political fights. I think what this moment should be about is uniting our

country and bringing us together. And I will do everything, and my resolve

has not changed in any way to help Joe Biden get elected, because I just

think the world will be a new one for our country when he is president.

And we have so much we need to do, including things that we`ve talked

about, you and I, climate change, and finally doing something about the

minimum wage and workers, and getting this from day one, having a president

that`s going to take his first 100 days. And I have a bunch of ideas for

him on that and what he can do in those first 100 days to get at this

pandemic and to take it on in an honest and real way for the people of this

country.

O`DONNELL: Senator Klobuchar, your campaign for the White House began in

the snows of Minnesota, what seems like a very, very long time ago. We all

watched on the night when you decided to drop out of the race for the

presidency and endorsed Joe Biden, and you did it with that Humphrey-like

happy warrior approach that you`re bringing to this.

Tonight, it`s been fascinating to watch as you leave this race that you

find -- you are all -- you`re delivering this positive message about what

can happen with you out of the race, and that seems to be similar to what

we`re hearing tonight.

This is the end of the road tonight for you on this program for the Amy

Klobuchar quest for the White House in terms of a vice presidential office

there.

(CROSSTALK)

KLOBUCHAR: It`s not the end of the road for me, man. I`ve got a lot of

things I want to do. But I --

O`DONNELL: No, no, I`m talking about -- I`m just talking about the White

House. Go ahead. Sorry.

KLOBUCHAR: Yes, OK. So, you know, you make these decisions, and you`ve got

to decide, as our friend, my friend, John McCain, always said -- there is

nothing more liberating than a cause larger than yourself.

This cause of making sure we have a decent person in the White House in Joe

Biden, that`s my cause. Making sure that we finally do something where we

are on track to get the vaccines out, do everything in the right way for

this country, that we have economic fairness in this country, that we get

our economy moving again, all of that to me -- why am I smiling? That is

exciting to get at that.

The fact that we have people supporting police reform, police chiefs across

the country, line officers in my own state, people that were horrified when

they watched that video and they`re translating that horror into action,

into voting in November but also action right now.

To me, comes -- out of that tragedy, comes a moment, a historic moment for

our country and out of that comes joy.

So if you are asking me why I`m the happy warrior here, Lawrence, is

because I see this future that we can have of our country, and I see how we

can get there.

O`DONNELL: Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you very much for joining us

tonight. Thank you for sharing that news with us. I`m sure it`s going to

change the political dynamic for the next 24 hours, at least, talking about

this subject. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Senator.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Thank you.

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