MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript Interview with Hakeem Jeffries

Interview

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HAYES: I'm going to go back to Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New

York. And I think we have you back, Congressman. How are you doing?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Great to see you, Chris.

HAYES: Oh, good. I can see blinking. So let me -- let me start with where

you started tonight's program on since it's a local question for you, and I

think it has broad applicability. I've seen the tenor and rhetoric of

police unions across the country. It doesn't matter where they are. They

all basically sound the same. What does it say to you when the police union

will go on and accuse some random workers at Shake Shack have intentionally

trying to poison them without running that to ground? Like what does it say

about the credibility of these people?

JEFFRIES: Well, their credibility is in question. There are police unions

across the country and certainly in New York City, that have been a robust,

consistent, unnecessary, unfortunate obstacle toward reform. And far too

often they express interest in defending brutal officers, violent officers

and abusive officers as opposed to being part of the solution in terms of

holding those officers accountable.

HAYES: The President staged this event today to sign an executive order on

police force. Most of the people I have read on it and I've read the texts

of the executive orders say there's some things that may be a step in the

right direction, but it depends on enforcement. It also depends on how

seriously this administration takes it. Do you see it as something real to

deal with?

JEFFRIES: It's a modest set of measures that at least relate to an

understanding that there is a problem that has to be confronted. And as you

indicated, Chris, the president even has acknowledged that seemingly with

these baby steps that he's taken today.

But fundamentally, if things are going to transform, we need transformative

laws. And that's why we're going to continue to push for the Justice and

Policing Act. The House Judiciary Committee will pass it tomorrow. It will

be on the floor next week. And we need to change our nation's laws in order

to change the mindset that exists in police departments across the country,

that violent officers will be held accountable, and that we want a

mentality of policing that relates to a guardian approach, but not a

warrior approach, which far too often leads to tragic consequences.

HAYES: So, walk me through how this proposed legislation would deal with

this accountability issue because there are so many examples of police, you

know, acting in a way that provoked censure or complaint and then not being

removed from the force or not even being suspended or lying, and not having

those lies, results in punishment. What would the legislation you're

proposing do about that?

JEFFRIES: Well, two things. One, it will establish a national use of force

standard, by which we're going to emphasize de-escalation and de-emphasize

the use of force that often results in death or serious bodily injury. Once

you establish that national use of force standard, and an officer crosses

the line, then it becomes a lot easier to hold them accountable for

engaging in brutality or violence.

We also expand the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice as well as

state attorney generals so that they can prosecute row police officers who

brutalized the community and to increase the likelihood of criminal

accountability on the one hand. And at the same time, we reform and

effectively abolish the doctrine of qualified immunity on the civil side,

so that when someone civil rights have been violated, there is a right that

exists and a remedy so they can be accountability on that side of the

ledger as well.

HAYES: There was some conversation -- It was interesting to hear Kevin

McCarthy talk about some of this. The way things work in modern legislating

is that basically the party's leadership will sort of move legislation

through unless you're dealing with some big kind of like Omnibus spending

bill. Do you think you buy in from Republicans on any of this in the House?

JEFFRIES: Well, during the judiciary committee hearing that took place last

week, there are House Republican colleagues of mine who expressed support

for criminalizing the chokehold, which is in the Justice and Policing act.

There was some expression of support for getting rid of qualified immunity

so we can promote accountability when a police officer crosses the line.

There was also Republican expression of support for maintaining a database

so that you can have a rogue police officer fired for engaging in conduct

that is abusive, and then rehire in a neighboring jurisdiction. That of

course happened with the Tamir Rice case, and the Cleveland Police

Department hired somebody who had been terminated, and then of course,

Tamir Rice was murdered.

So there is some glimmers of hope that we are seeing that my colleagues on

the Republican side of the aisle recognize that this time must be

different, that we should act, we should act decisively and comprehensively

to try to address this problem.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York, thank you for

being with me tonight.

JEFFRIES: Thanks, Chris.

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