MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript Interview with Adam Schiff

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff. He is chairman of the House

Intelligence Committee.

Sir, thank you for joining us on short notice tonight. Thanks. I really

appreciate it.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: It`s good

to be with you.

MADDOW: Let me just start by getting your reaction to this news. There had

been a lot of chatter and a lot of threats from the president that he might

do something like this. So I know it doesn`t come as a complete surprise.

But now that it`s happened, what`s your reaction?

SCHIFF: Well, another, you know, appalling (ph) attack on the rule of law.

There are two systems of justice now in America -- one for criminal friends

of the president, like Michael Flynn and now Roger Stone, and one for

everybody else.

It wasn`t enough when president intervened and Bill Barr intervened to

recommend a shorter sentence for Donald Trump. They now had to take action

-- the president had to take action to make that sentence go away

completely. And, you know, of course, this is part of the broad pattern of

the president rewarding his friends and potentially, the more serious shoe

to fall, punishing his enemies.

I think you were exactly right, Rachel, earlier in the show when you talked

about how, you know, essentially, the president is using, through Bill

Barr, a shield right now to protect those who are lying for him and

covering up for him. But what may be more dangerous is what`s to come and

that is Bill Barr using the sword (ph) to investigate and prosecute the

president`s enemies. That`s another, even more serious attack on the rule

of law.

And so, what`s to come may be worse than what we`re seeing today. But what

we`re seeing today is an appalling overture to people, essentially from the

president saying, if you lie for me, you cover up for me, I will reward

you. On the other hand, if you`re a rat and you cooperate, then, like a

mafia boss, I will come after you.

And it`s a sad day in America when our democracy is reduced to this.

MADDOW: Some of this involves you, directly, and your committee. One of the

felonies that Roger Stone was charged with was lying to your committee.

He was convicted on all counts. Now that his sentence is commuted, despite

that conviction, is there anything that your committee can do or would want

to do with regard to Stone and his case given -- given what he did to the

function of Congress and its investigating role?

SCHIFF: I don`t know that there`s anything more that the Congress can do

vis-a-vis Roger Stone. Now, Roger Stone may have state law problems. He

won`t have them arising I think from his direct testimony to Congress.

But, you know, what we can do, I think, when this president is gone, is we

can enact a whole series of, what I`m calling, are post-Watergate reforms

where we try to attack these abuses of the pardon power or the power to

commute sentence. I introduced a bill, for example, that would require, in

a case like this, where the president is a witness, subject, or target of

an investigation, and takes action to pardon or commute someone. That the

complete investigative files are turned over to Congress so that Congress

can determine whether this is yet another act of obstruction of justice.

So there are remedies. But it`s hard to see what remedy we can use now,

beyond the ultimate remedy in November when we get to vote these bums out

of office.

MADDOW: Let me just ask you about what we started with this hour. And you

mentioned it a moment ago. The continuing and, apparently, sort of

systematically designed actions of William Barr, to undermine or, in fact,

end, the independence of important federal prosecutors` offices around the

country, to directly intervene and take over criminal investigations and

criminal prosecutions involving people and interests related to the

president.

And, in fact, to command that there`d be criminal investigations of the

president`s political enemies, including people who had the temerity to

investigate potential foreign interference in trying to get him elected.

I know that the Judiciary Committee, for example, has had a heck of a time

of getting William Barr to agree to come sit down in a chair in Congress

and answer questions. But as Barr gets more and more aggressive with this,

he`s now taken out the U.S. attorney in D.C., in SDNY, in EDNY. He`s

installed his own people in all of those offices. There is incredibly

detailed reporting and whistle-blower testimony about the way that he has

undone things, to benefit the president within the criminal law.

Does that just end at the election? Or is there some remedy? Is there some

accountability, even in the long run, in terms of what Barr is doing here?

Because his actions are, you know -- I`m not going to say they`re

existentially challenging to the republic that we are, but they`re close.

SCHIFF: Well, they are doing grave and long-term damage, certainly, to our

democracy, our rule of law, the reputation and the reality of the

independence of the Justice Department. You know, I think what we can do

now until November is shed light on these malevolent actions, these

destructive actions, by holding hearings, by bringing these witnesses in,

and by shedding light.

And, you know, and frankly, there are, in addition to all these nightmare

stories, there are some heroes. Like those that are coming before Congress

to expose, in whistle-blower fashion, these acts of attack on the rule of

law.

You know, I`ll also -- and this is, also, something within the last 24 to

48 hours, but Judge Sullivan, taking the action to ask for a full-panel

review of the decision by the Court of Appeals to dismiss the case against

Michael Flynn. You know, that`s an act of real bravery by that district

court judge, Berman`s act of defiance, the fact that Strauss is now acting

in the capacity of acting U.S. attorney in New York. There are some stories

of great heroism right now and that is what is I think keeping the wheels

on the cart.

But, you know, exposure, now, in terms of repercussions later, you know, we

need to pass reforms too make it much more difficult for a future craven

president and craven attorney general to get away with this. But there may

be, you know, criminal law accountability. You know, for example, the

president as individual-1 in that celebrated case in the Southern District

of New York, where he was directing and coordinating this campaign-fraud

scheme. There is no shield to protect Donald Trump when he leaves office.

You know, what Barr is doing may not be criminal. It may just be a deeply

damaging to our democracy. And I don`t know whether there`s a remedy for

Bill Barr, after this administration is over, except the stigma of history.

And that will be a severe judgment.

MADDOW: House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff, thank you again for

joining us on such short notice, sir, and for making that point actually

about the other side of this, about the heroism that you see of people

pushing back and not going silently, in the face of these -- in the face of

these actions by the administration. I think it`s really, really important.

Thank you, sir. It`s good to have you here.

SCHIFF: Good to see you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source