CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript Interview with James Clyburn

Interview

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Mr. Clyburn, Congressman Clyburn, thank you so much for joining us.

I'm so sorry about the loss of this dear friend of yours. I know you have been friends with him since 1960.

When was the last time you spoke with him? Tell us about that conversation.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): I spoke with John last Saturday. We talked on the phone.

We expressed love for each other. We talked about his illness some time ago. We knew that it would come to this. Didn't know which day.

So, last Saturday, when all kinds of rumors were floating around, I called him, and we talked. And it was a pleasant conversation. And I ended up telling him to just stop talking, because I would talk, and just conserve his energy. It was a pleasant conversation.

TAPPER: Lewis was obviously a towering, almost larger-than-life individual in terms of his dignity, his courage.

Your relationship with him, as I noted, stretches back to October 1960, when you were both organizing protests during the civil rights movement, such an important movement.

Tell us about those days and about how your friendship persevered for so long.

CLYBURN: Well, it had a lot to do with the common cause that we found in challenging the status quo.

John Lewis and I met not long after the sit-in up in Greensboro, North Carolina. That was February 1, 1960. And we were on the campus at (INAUDIBLE) University together in the spring of that year.

But I did not meet John then. The following October, on the campus of Morehouse College, we did meet. That night, if you recall, there were some challenges going on, some conflicts between students and SCLC, Martin Luther King Jr., because, up until that point, Martin Luther King Jr. had been advocating going to jail, but he had never been to jail.

And it was in that -- it was that weekend that that conversation took place. We went into a meeting around 10:00 in the evening, and we didn't come out of that room until 4:00 the next morning.

I was transformed in that five or six hours. I have never been the same since.

And John and I went on to meet our sponsors in the movement. He met Lillian. And they got married. I met Emily in jail. We got married. They were both librarians. And they became great friends.

And some of my fondest memories was listening to Emily, and at least her end of the conversation with Lillian, and when sometimes they expressed their disagreements with how we were conducting ourselves.

So, John and I got to be fast friends. And it was sealed because our wives became such good friends.

TAPPER: It's doubly a tragedy that his death happens at this time in our history, because, A, because of the pandemic, he is not going to get the kind of send-off that previous leaders of his stature have been able to be given, in terms of mass crowds, mass funeral attendance and such, but also because of who the president is and his reluctance to fully understand the greatness of Mr. Lewis.

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After a delay, President Trump did send out a short tweet Saturday afternoon saying that he was -- quote -- saddened" to hear of John Lewis' death, calling him a civil rights hero.

Are you satisfied with that response? What would you like to see from President Trump? What's the best way President Trump could honor John Lewis?

CLYBURN: The best way he can honor John Lewis is to go to the media and say to the country that we have a road map given to us by the Supreme Court in a Roberts decision seven years ago in Shelby v. Holder.

The Supreme Court gutted the 1965 Voting Rights Act. And it said in that decision that these are some things you can do to reauthorize this act. The House of Representatives has passed that.

I think that Trump and, in the Senate leadership, Mitch McConnell, by their deeds, if they so celebrate the heroism of this man, then let's go to work and pass that bill, because it's laid out the way the Supreme Court asked us to lay it out.

And if the president were to sign that, then I think that's what we would do to honor John. It should be the John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act of 2020. That's the way to do it.

Words may be powerful, but deeds are lasting.

TAPPER: It's a great loss for the nation, and I know a great loss for you personally.

Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, Democrat of South Carolina, thank you so much for your time.

And, again, our deepest condolences on the loss of your friend. CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

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