CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript Interview with Jerry Nadler
Interview
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Chairman Nadler, thanks for joining us. Let's start about this president's and attorney general's decision to
fire the U.S. attorney Geoffrey Berman.
You seem to be suggesting in statements you have made since the firing that Barr may be trying to impede an ongoing criminal investigation in the Southern District of New York. Which investigation?
REP. JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): Well, I think it's obvious that the -- a number of investigations that the Southern District has been doing with reference to the president's associates, Giuliani, the Turkish investigation.
We have seen a pattern of the president opposing, of Barr corruptly impeding all these investigations. So, this is just more of the same.
TAPPER: You tweeted that you would like to invite I guess the now former U.S. attorney Geoffrey Berman to testify in front of your committee, the House Judiciary, this week, on Wednesday.
Has he accepted your offer? Will that happen this week?
NADLER: I couldn't hear your question.
TAPPER: I'm sorry.
You said that you invited Geoffrey Berman to testify in front of your committee on Wednesday. Has he accepted your offer? Is that going to happen this week?
[09:05:05]
NADLER: Well, we are having a hearing on Wednesday in which we have a number of whistle-blowers from the Department of Justice who will testify.
We have invited Berman, and I'm sure he will -- I'm sure he -- I don't know about Wednesday, but I'm sure he will testify.
TAPPER: I know you announced you're going to investigate why Berman was fired.
Some congressional Democrats, including Senator Elizabeth Warren, have said that this is it, this is the last straw, Attorney General Bill Barr needs to be impeached.
You have not gone that far. Do you think calls for his impeachment are premature?
NADLER: No, I don't think calls for his impeachment are immature -- premature, any more than the calls for the president's impeachment were premature.
But they are a waste of time at this point, because we do know that we have a corrupt Republican majority in the Senate which will not consider an impeachment, no matter what the evidence and no matter what the facts. So, we're going to -- we're instead going to do what we have to do without that, and including barring $50 million from his own personal budget.
TAPPER: You're calling every Senate Republican who voted to acquit President Trump corrupt?
NADLER: I think, in the sense of being corrupt against the interests of the country, yes.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about new revelations, in addition, from this less redacted version of the Mueller report that CNN was able to obtain through the Freedom of Information Act.
We learned that Mueller raised the possibility that President Trump lied to him when the president said that he did not remember any conversations with Roger Stone about WikiLeaks, which obviously got those e-mails from the DNC that the Russians were to have -- are said to have hacked that were damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign.
We learned that testimony from Trump attorney Michael Cohen, Trump former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates suggests that President Trump did talk with Roger Stone about WikiLeaks and this pending release of these damaging e-mails.
I know you are familiar with this. Do you think President Trump lied to Robert Mueller and his investigators about this issue?
NADLER: Yes, I think it's very clear that he lied, and that he committed a crime.
And I think it's also the case that, as Mueller implied in his report, that the only reason the president wasn't indicted is because Mueller was operating under the Department of Justice guidelines that say a sitting president cannot be indicted.
If he were not president, I think he would have been indicted and should've been.
TAPPER: For obstruction of justice or for something having to do with conspiracy with Russia?
NADLER: Well, for lying to -- for lying to Mueller. It's lying to the -- that's a crime, to lie to the committee, to the Mueller committee.
TAPPER: I want to turn to the latest from former National Security Adviser John Bolton coming out in his book that I think comes out on Tuesday.
Bolton accused Democrats, House Democrats, of committing -- quote -- "impeachment malpractice" by not broadening your impeachment investigation beyond the Ukraine controversy to include other episodes he describes as potential high crimes and misdemeanors involving the president with China, involving the president with Turkey.
What do you make of that charge? NADLER: Well, the fact is, the president could've been impeached on
other grounds, too, such as obstruction of justice in the Russia investigation. We chose to try to keep it simple.
But -- and Bolton, who has, as we now know, evidence that he could have offered and refused to offer, is certainly no one to talk.
TAPPER: Well, he did offer to testify before the Senate. But, as you know, the Senate voted not to hear any additional evidence, every Republican voting against...
(CROSSTALK)
NADLER: Well, he refused to testify before the House.
TAPPER: Right.
NADLER: He refused to testify before the House.
And the Senate, of course, was never going to call him, because the Senate Republicans were not interested in any evidence. As I said, they were corrupt in that respect.
TAPPER: Yes, every -- I should just note, every Republican voted against new evidence, except for Susan Collins and Mitt Romney.
NADLER: That's right.
TAPPER: Are you planning on calling Bolton to testify about this new information he has?
[09:10:03]
He suggests in his book that President Trump...
NADLER: I'm sorry. Am I planning to what?
TAPPER: To call John Bolton to testify?
NADLER: I'm sorry. Am I planning to what?
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: And Bolton -- are you planning on calling John Bolton to testify before your committee?
NADLER: Oh. No, we're not interested in Bolton's testimony.
TAPPER: Bolton says in his book that President Trump promised him he would stop the investigation into the Turkish bank that the Southern District of New York was doing at the time, which you brought up as a potential reason why Geoff Berman might've been fired.
It sounds as though Bolton has evidence to back that up. But you don't want to hear him because, what, because you're upset that he didn't voluntarily testify during impeachment? NADLER: Well, we may. We may. But we will see about that.
TAPPER: I mean, do you think that any of these new revelations from Bolton are impeachable, or is the door closed on impeachment for 2020?
NADLER: Well, I think -- I think the president has done a lot of impeachable things, including what Bolton is talking about.
But we have an election coming up. We know the Republicans in the Senate will not entertain an impeachment in any event. So that would be -- that would, at this point, be a waste of time and effort.
TAPPER: One last thing before we go.
You said that you think calls to impeach the attorney general were not premature. Does that mean that you think Attorney General Barr should be impeached?
NADLER: Well, I think he deserves impeachment. He certainly deserves impeachment.
But, again, that's a waste of time, because the Republicans in the Senate won't look at that, and we have other ways of getting at this.
TAPPER: All right, Chairman Jerry Nadler, congressman and Democrat of New York, thank you so much for your time today.
We really appreciate it.
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