CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Interview with James Clyburn

Interview

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OUTFRONT now, House majority whip and Democratic congressman from South Carolina, James Clyburn, who has also endorsed Joe Biden for president.

And, Congressman, it's good to have you with me tonight.

So, I mentioned a few specifics of the bill. And, obviously, you know, I talked to the chief of police in Houston just the other day. You know, there's a lot of agreement in many police departments on things like those chokeholds.

But the Senate is working on its own version. As of now, their proposal does not include a ban on chokeholds.

Is any proposal that doesn't include that a non-starter for you and for Democrats?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me, Erin.

And I -- I hate to ever call anything a non-starter because if you get 90 percent of what you want and that's one little thing, 10 percent, you might go ahead and fight another day. I'm a great believer in Lyndon Johnson's old adage, a half loaf is better than no loaf at all. So, I never call anything a non-starter.

BURNETT: And, you know, you had ten days of protests. And then some Democrats started to, you know, much more loudly call to defund or dismantle police departments in the wake of George Floyd's death. And, you know, we even heard that as a chant on the streets of New York yesterday.

Here's what a few of your colleagues are saying. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): What are you willing to sacrifice to make sure that overfunded police departments are defunded?

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): The Minneapolis Police Department is rotten to the root. So, when we dismantle it, we get rid of that cancer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: That was Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

And, look, you have warned, Congressman, that language like this could hijack police reform efforts. President Trump has already seized on it. You know, he tweeted: Law and order, not defund and abolish the police. The radical left Democrats have gone crazy.

What do you say to Democrats who are -- who are raising this, who are saying police departments should be defunded and dismantled?

CLYBURN: Well, if you've got a rotten police department, treat it like you treat a rotten apple. Get rid of it.

Police departments are needed. Police departments are wanted. We want good police departments and good police.

Now everybody keeps telling me about what happened in Camden, New Jersey. I know what happened in Camden, New Jersey. They got rid of a rotten police department and they turned over the policing to the county, even hired some private people to do the policing.

They did not defund policing. They defunded a rotten department. There's a difference.

And so, I will say to all of my friends, I'd seen to be -- to me, history is instructive. I was there the moment John Lewis back in the '60s and early '70s. We saw how our movement got hijacked. We did a lot back then that led to where we are today. We would have done even more if we had not got overtaken by sloganeering, burn baby burn, took off in this country.

That was not John Lewis. He never struck a match. That was not Jim Clyburn. I never threw a brick.

We were trying to get things so that our children and grandchildren can have a better life in these United States of America. And I will say to all of those people who are benefitting from those efforts, be careful that we don't get hijacked this time like we got the last time.

BURNETT: Powerfully said.

You know, there are -- as you know because you've endorsed Joe Biden and I remember talking to you about that down, obviously, in South Carolina. There are several African-American women on his short list for vice president. And he, of course, has said he is going to pick a woman.

Does he need to pick an African-American woman? Do you think that this is -- is now something he must do?

CLYBURN: I will never tell anybody what they must do, and I don't want anybody telling me what I must do. Let's share what I should do and maybe what you should do.

And I will say this, I will be very proud -- I'm the father of three African-American women. I would love to see an African-American woman. That would be a plus, but it would not be a must.

BURNETT: And do you think given the crossroads we're in when it comes to race, that Biden could pick, you know, really anyone who is not African American?

[19:50:04]

You know, before what happened here with Mr. Floyd, he -- he was looking at -- you know, a wide variety of women, right? Some white, some African-American women. Do you think that now he must pick someone who is African-American?

Again, I used the word "must", so I'll use your word "should". But do you think that is changing the way he should look at this decision?

CLYBURN: I don't know. I said from the beginning, we must do the vetting, we must do the polling, and then I would say to the vice president, after your committee, he has a committee doing this, finish it with the vetting and the polling, then you take a look with your head and your heart.

I feel very strongly that we ought not fly in the face of history. I saw what happened with Sarah Palin. She was a great choice, everybody thought. But she wasn't vetted properly.

The same thing with Geraldine Ferrero, she was a great choice for Mondale, and all of a sudden, the vetting wasn't done of her husband, and that was a big problem. So, let's just calm down, do the vetting, do the polling, and then let the vice president sit down with those results and let his head and heart be his guide.

BURNETT: Well, we know he listens so much to everything you say as his long time friend and confidant. Thank you so much, Congressman. I appreciate your time tonight.

CLYBURN: Thank you.

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