CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Rep. James Clyburn

Interview

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BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Dana Bash.

The Democratic primary is moving on the more diverse states of Nevada and South Carolina where the primary could be make-or-break moment for former Vice President Joe Biden who says that this state, at least South Carolina, is his firewall. But is Biden support among African American voters slips nationally could a key endorsement give him a boost in South Carolina? [09:45:01]

Well, that's state's kingmaker Congressman James Clyburn says he is not ready to say which candidate he supports quite yet and he joins me now with a big grin on his face. Thank you so much for joining me.

So, Mr. Clyburn, first about the former vice president. He has called South Carolina his firewall, but so far he's coming fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire, and a new Quinnipiac poll shows that his support among African Americans on a national level has fallen by more than 20 points in the last month, so will South Carolina be his firewall?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, I don't know. We will see. I think that we have been seeing the numbers all year. In fact, last year as well.

And the vice president is leading among the African American voters in South Carolina by a wide margin. These things usually tighten up when you get close to an election, so we don't know. We will find out in about 10 days.

BASH: What is your feeling? I mean, do you have a better sense of what is going on, on the ground there, than anyone. Do you feel that his support is slipping or do you feel that he's still in good shape down there?

CLYBURN: Well I think that Steyer is doing an incredible job. Buttigieg is doing very good. I passed my grandson's house as I came to the studio today, and he is working on the Buttigieg campaign, he had a big crowd at his house. So I think there is a lot of activity taking place here. And I think that we're going to have a real spirited contest.

BASH: OK. So you have said that the reason I am not asking you is because I won't get an answer about who you are going to endorse, because you won't do that until after the South Carolina debate which is on February 25th. "The New York Times" is reporting that your previously expected endorsement of Joe Biden is now uncertain because you're worried about endorsing a candidate who may not win South Carolina. Is that true?

CLYBURN: I don't know where they're getting that from. I'm very -- I'm an admirer of "The New York Times." I read "The New York Times." But they don't always get it right.

The fact of the matter is I have never ever worried about who will win in order to tell my supporters who I favor. So I will never ever base my support upon whether or not I think that person will win the state anyway. Why would you need my support? I did not support Barack Obama publicly in 2008. Nobody thought he was going to win, but he did.

So I don't know where they are getting that from. That is not how I make decisions.

BASH: OK. All right. So, let me ask you, you mentioned Mayor Buttigieg. He is actually running an ad in South Carolina right now featuring your grandson who works for him. You said to me on this program in November that Mayor Buttigieg will have trouble with older African American voters in South Carolina because he is gay. He has done really well in Iowa and New Hampshire. As voters learn more about him, do you think they still feel that way?

CLYBURN: I think that we all grow. We mature and I think that the political calculations are changing quite a bit.

I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian church. My father was a pastor there. My grandfather was a pastor. I know what takes place in fundamental Christian churches throughout the country.

And so though I may feel differently, I don't adhere to everything that I was taught in the church I grew in. So what I feel personally and what I know to be fundamental to teachings in fundamentalist churches are two different things. I only try to answer your question as honestly as I possibly could. And I think that is your feel that that is a problem, and we all have been reading what has been said in the last 24 hours about that.

It didn't bother me personally. I like the mayor very much, and my grandson and I talk about it all the time. But that's not the way I feel personally.

BASH: But you still think it's a problem? You don't think it has changed?

CLYBURN: Yes, it has (ph) changed. It just matured. The calculations have changed. Yes, that's what I said at the outset.

BASH: I see. OK.

So, one last question. You mentioned Tom Steyer he got less than 1 percent in Iowa, less than 4 percent in New Hampshire, but he is in second place right now in some polls in your state. Briefly, why is that? What do you think is going on?

CLYBURN: I have always said, money is a mother's milk of politics. He has money and he has been spending it. And so I think that will always make a difference.

[09:50:02]

Where was Bloomberg nationally among voters a month ago? But he has money, he's been spending it, and it's changed the calculations a lot. So for us to just pretend that that money doesn't make a difference, that would be foolhardy. Money makes a difference. Steyer has it, he's been spending it and he's reaping the rewards.

BASH: James Clyburn, thank you so much. We look forward to seeing you down there in South Carolina and to hearing what your decision is, you've said you know who you're going to vote for you just won't say it publicly yet. Thank you very much for your time this morning. CLYBURN: Not yet. Thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

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