CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Bernie Sanders
Interview
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TAPPER: Joining me now, 2020 presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders.
Senator, thanks so much for joining us.
Let's start on Iowa, because some of your supporters say that DNC Chairman Tom Perez publicly called for a recanvass of the results just as results were starting to indicate that you were closing in on your lead.
Your national co-chair, Nina Turner, said the timing of that -- quote -- "does look fairly intentional" -- unquote.
Do you think the Democratic Party is trying to openly hurt your campaign?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, all I can say about Iowa is, it was an embarrassment.
It was a disgrace to the good people of Iowa, who take their responsibilities in the caucuses very seriously. They screwed it up badly, is what the Iowa Democratic Party did.
But, at the end of the day, to me, what is most important -- and I don't know how anybody can debate it -- we ended up on the first ballot 6,000 votes ahead of anybody else.
And after the realignment process, which is a fine process, we ended up 2,500 votes ahead of Mayor Buttigieg. When you win an election by 6,000 or 2,500 votes, from where I come from, you win the primary or the caucus.
So, we are confident that we, in fact, won the Iowa caucus. And I thank the people of Iowa for that.
TAPPER: Do you think that the Democratic Party, whether the Iowa Democratic Party or the DNC, was trying to hurt you, though? SANDERS: I have no idea.
And that's -- we're going to monitor the situation closely, but that's not my impression at this point.
Look, all I can tell you, Jake, is what I think most Americans know. We are taking on the entire establishment. We are taking on corporate America. We are taking on Trump and the Republican establishment. And there are a lot of people in the Democratic establishment who are not, to say the least, enthusiastic about Bernie Sanders.
But I'm not casting any aspersions on -- political aspersions. The incompetence there in Iowa was just extraordinary.
TAPPER: Joe Biden says that your Democratic socialist label would hurt down-ballot candidates.
He's not the only one saying it. Vulnerable Congressman Conor Lamb in Western Pennsylvania said -- quote -- "It would be really hard" for you to win his district.
Congressman Anthony Brincini -- I'm sorry -- Congressman Anthony Brindisi of New York says your platform is not a winning message. Congressman Bera of California says you would probably put the House majority in jeopardy.
What's your response to these Democrats who are worried that you're going to hurt them in more moderate districts?
SANDERS: Well, the truth is that our agenda is precisely the agenda that the overwhelming majority of the American people want.
We're going to grow the voter turnout. In Iowa, where the turnout was not as high as I wanted it to be, among young people, people under 29 years of age, we increased the voter turnout by some 33 percent. It's a huge voter turnout.
And we do that all over the country. I think you're going to see incredible gains for down-ballot Democrats.
Look, at the end of the day, the American people want to raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. They want to make public colleges and universities tuition-free and cancel student debt by a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.
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The American people understand health care is a human right, not a privilege. The function of health care is not to make $100 billion for the drug companies and the insurance companies. The American people understand we have got to deal with the existential threat of climate change.
Our agenda is the agenda of working-class and middle-class Americans. They want us to take on corporate interests and the greed of the drug companies and the insurance companies. TAPPER: You talk a lot on the campaign trail about income inequality,
how the top 1 percent of Americans possess more wealth than the bottom 90 percent of Americans all combined.
SANDERS: Yes.
TAPPER: Our investigative KFILE team found that, early in your political career, way back in 1974, you said that it should be illegal to earn more money than someone could spend in his or her lifetime.
You proposed a maximum wage cap on the highest earners.
SANDERS: What year was that?
TAPPER: 197...
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: What year was that?
TAPPER: It was 45 years ago.
SANDERS: You know, look, Jake, in all due respect...
TAPPER: Yes.
SANDERS: ... that was seven years before I was -- did you go back to my third grade essay when I was in PS-197 about what I said?
TAPPER: Well, you were a grown man in your 30s.
SANDERS: I mean, what I said 40 or 50 -- yes, but that was -- yes, 50 years ago.
Let's talk about my mayor's record, where I was a transformative mayor, reelected three times.
You know, we could go back to things that I said in the '70s. I don't think it's productive. I have been a senator for 16 years, a congressman -- a senator for 14 years, a congressman for 16 years.
But here's the bottom line. This is what I do believe.
When you have three people own more wealth than the bottom half of America, when half of our people are living paycheck to paycheck, when 500,000 Americans are sleeping out on the street, yes, the rich have got to pay, and the large corporations have got to pay their fair share of taxes.
We will raise taxes very substantially on billionaires. No apologies for that.
TAPPER: But you do not favor a wage cap, as you once proposed? That's the only question.
SANDERS: Fifty years ago, look, we -- what I just said is, when you have massive levels of income and wealth inequality -- by the way, in the last three years under Trump, the billionaire class has seen an hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars' increase in their wealth.
The average American worker has seen less than a 1 percent increase in real wages last year. All right? That's the issue that we got to deal with right now.
We need an economy that works for working people, not just for the billionaire class, which is what we have under Trump's economy.
TAPPER: I want to ask you.
A nonprofit organization that you launched, Our Revolution, has been promoting you. It is -- under the tax code, it can accept unlimited money. It's not required to disclose its top donors.
The "USA Today" editorial board wrote of this dark money group -- quote -- "Sanders has long been a big critic of money in politics. To then go out and found a group like Our Revolution is hypocritical."
What's your response to "USA Today"?
SANDERS: My response to that is, I don't want -- I do not believe that any group, Our Revolution or anybody else, should be raising money from wealthy people.
And I'm not asking for their help. They legally can do what they want to do, because you have a corrupt political system.
But I would also point out that I'm running against a candidate, Pete Buttigieg, among others, who has raised contributions from more than 40 billionaires, including the CEOs of some of the largest drug companies in America.
So, we are independent of Our Revolution. All these other groups, they are legally able to do what they want. So, my message for all of the candidates, let's end all of that stuff right now. You want to do it today? Let's do it today.
But we are independent of Our Revolution. And I -- our campaign finance situation is that we have received more individual campaign contributions from more Americans than any candidate in the history of American politics, averaging $18 a piece.
So, we have revolutionized campaign finance. Our support is coming from the working class of this country. We don't get contributions from billionaires.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about something Hillary Clinton said this week.
She attacked you again, believe it or not. This time, she said...
SANDERS: Did she attack me again?
TAPPER: She did.
SANDERS: Is that again? All right.
TAPPER: This time, she said your promises will ultimately lead to distrust in government, because, in her view, you will not be able to deliver on them.
This comes, as you have also said, as you know, that nobody knows exactly how much Medicare for all is going to cost. You have also said you don't know how many new people would be able to attend tuition- free college under your plan.
Do you think she has any point here, that the ambitiousness of your plans is exceeded even by what you know about them and, ultimately, that might lead to disillusion and distrust?
SANDERS: Look, you know, my own view on that is that I think we have got to unite the Democratic Party to defeat the most dangerous president in modern American history. I'm not going to revisit 2016.
But in terms of our agenda, it is the agenda of what working people want. In terms of health care, we are the only major country on Earth not to guarantee health care to all people.
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And we're spending twice as much per capita. Does that make sense to anybody? The function of health care is to provide quality care for all, not to make $100 billion in profits for the drug companies and the insurance companies.
And it doesn't matter to me what anybody else says. This is what I believe. I live 50 miles away from Canada. They provide health care to all people. You come out of a hospital in Canada after a month there, you don't pay a nickel.
And they spend half as much per capita. If Canada can do it, if Europe can do it, the United States of America can do it. That is not a false promise. That is simply having the courage to take on the greed of the pharmaceutical industry that, in some cases, charges us 10 more for the same exact drugs they sell in Canada.
We're going to take them on. We're going to take the insurance companies on. For 100 years, Jake, presidents have been talking about health care for all. We're going to do it.
TAPPER: You won the New Hampshire primary by more than 20 points last time. You going to win again on Tuesday?
SANDERS: We have a great volunteer organization. The reason we won in Iowa, because of our grassroots activists, we're going to do that, I believe, here in New Hampshire.
I'm very proud of the work that our people are doing. I think we have an excellent chance to win.
TAPPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, thank you so much for your time, sir. Appreciate it.
SANDERS: Thank you, Jake.
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