CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Elizabeth Warren

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

TAPPER: My next guest is another leading Democratic candidate who will join Buttigieg on the debate stage later this month, as another split may be emerging among the 2020 hopefuls, this time over foreign policy.

Joining me now from Dubuque, Iowa, is Democratic presidential candidate Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

WARREN: Thank you for having me this morning. It's good to be here.

TAPPER: So, you called the U.S. attack that killed Qasem Soleimani a -- quote -- "assassination."

President Ford issued an executive order in '76 to make political assassinations illegal. Are you saying that this strike was a violation of law?

WARREN: Look, it was a targeted attack on a government official, a high-ranking military official for the government of Iran.

[09:25:08]

And what it's done has moved this country closer to war. We are not safer today than we were before Donald Trump acted.

I think the question that we ought to focus on is, why now? Why not a month ago? Why not a month from now?

And the answer from the administration seems to be, they can't keep their story straight on this. They have pointed in all different directions.

The last time we watched them do this was the summer over Ukraine. As soon as people started asking about the conversation between Donald Trump and the president of Ukraine and why aid had been held up to Ukraine, the administration did the same thing.

They pointed in all directions about what was going on. And, of course, what emerged then is, this was Donald Trump just trying to advance Donald Trump's own political agenda, not the agenda of the United States of America.

So what happens right now? Next week, the president of the United States could be facing an impeachment trial in the Senate. We know he's deeply upset about that. And I think people are reasonably asking, why this moment? Why does he pick now to take this highly inflammatory, highly dangerous action that moves us closer to war?

We have been at war for 20 years in the Middle East. We need to stop the war in the Middle East, not expand it.

TAPPER: Senator, are you suggesting that President Trump pulled the trigger and had Qasem Soleimani killed as a distraction from -- from impeachment?

WARREN: Look, I think people are reasonably asking about the timing and why it is that the administration seems to have all kinds of different answers.

In the first 48 hours after this attack, what did we hear? Well, we heard it was for an imminent attack. Then we heard, no, no, it was to prevent any kind of future attack. Then we heard from the vice president himself, no, it was related to 9/11.

And then we heard from press reports of people in the intelligence community saying the whole -- that the threat was overblown.

When the administration doesn't seem to have a coherent answer for taking a step like that, and they have taken a step that moves us closer to war, a step that puts everyone at risk, a step that takes our military -- puts our military at risk, puts our diplomats in the region at risk -- we have already paid a huge price for this war, thousands of American lives lost, a cost we have paid domestically and around the world.

And at the same time, look what it's done in the Middle East, millions of people who've been killed, who've been injured, who've been displaced.

This is not a moment when a president should be escalating tensions and moving us to war. The job of the president is to keep us safe. And that means move back from the edge.

TAPPER: One of the explanations that we have heard that you didn't mention is that, on December 27, the Iranian-backed militias ordered a strike that killed an American contractor.

You said yesterday that you would not have ordered the strike against Soleimani, and you described him as a military leader. But we should also point out, the Treasury Department designated the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that Soleimani was in charge of and the Quds Force as a terrorist group back in 2007.

The U.S. State Department did the same for both groups last year.

As president, would you not prioritize the U.S. military killing the leaders of organizations designated terrorist organizations?

WARREN: Look, the job of the president is to keep us safe.

And we know, in this circumstance, that Donald Trump was presented with a range of options by way of response. But the point is not to try to move us closer to war. The point is to move us away from that.

You know, this problem in large part started back when Donald Trump took us out of the Iranian nuclear deal. Remember, we had worked with our allies and shown that diplomacy can work. We got Iran to the negotiating table. And Iran had ceased work on its nuclear program.

That helps make the region safer. Now, Iran's not a good actor. There's no doubt about that. They're a bad actor. And there's more we needed to do with Iran. But Iran was in compliance with the nuclear deal. Our allies said, stay in the deal.

But Donald Trump, all by himself, said, nope, we're getting out of it. We're tearing it up.

And then it's been a series of more and more provocative acts. And each time that happens, it moves America closer to war in the Middle East. We don't need more war in the Middle East. We need peace in the Middle East.

TAPPER: Take a listen to Vice President Joe Biden last night on the campaign trail.

[09:30:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to have a -- provide a steady stable, experienced leadership. With all due respect, I think I'm best prepared than anybody running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A recent CNN poll shows that the Democratic voters agree Biden is head and shoulders above the rest of the Democratic field when it comes to who Democratic primary voters believe can best handle foreign policy. How do you counter that argument that the former vice president is making and seems to be winning?

WARREN: Look, I get out every day and I talk to voters all across Iowa, all across this country, and every piece of this is about judgment. It is about where we have been in the past, what our life experiences are, and how we see the world going forward.

We have been at war for 20 years in the Middle East. And I understand there are people who are running for president who are willing to keep combat troops in the Middle East indefinitely, five years, 10 year. Lindsey Graham, I think, talked about 100 years. That is not in the interest of the United States of America and certainly not in the interest of the Middle East and it's not in the interests of the world.

We need to dial back from that. We face other risks in the world with China, with Russia. We are under increasing economic pressure. The threat from climate change.

We need to work with our allies. There is much we need to do internationally. Staying pinned down and escalating our wars in the Middle East is not in the long term interests of the United States. And I will continue to talk about that with voters all across --

TAPPER: Senator, I just wanted to try to drill down a little on something you said earlier in the interview when you talked about the fact --

WARREN: Sure.

TAPPER: -- that people are asking the question about why President Trump carried out this operation when impeachment is about to recommence in the Senate. I know you are saying that people are raising the issue, and the administration has given a number of reasons for the strike against Soleimani, but what do you think? Do you believe that President Trump pulled the trigger on this operation as a way to distract from impeachment? Is that what you think?

WARREN: I think it is a reasonable question to ask particularly when the administration immediately after having taken this decision offers a bunch of contradictory --

TAPPER: But what do you think?

WARREN: -- explanations for what is going on.

Well, I think it is right question to ask. We will get more information as we go forward, but look at the timing on this, and look at what Donald Trump has said afterwards and his administration. They have pointed in multiple directions.

There was a reason that he chose this moment, not a month ago, not a month from now, not a less aggressive, less dangerous response. He had a whole range of responses that were presented to him. He didn't pick one of the other ones, he picked the most aggressive and the one that moves us closer to war.

So what does everybody talk about today? Are we going to war? Are we going to have another five year, 10 years of war in the Middle East? Are we going to be dragged in once again? Are we going to bring another generation of young people into war?

That is every bit of the conversation right now. Donald Trump has taken an extraordinarily reckless step, and we have seen it before, he is using foreign policy, he uses whatever he can to advance the interests of Donald Trump.

TAPPER: I would just again say that, I mean, the Trump administration does say that American contractor was killed on December 27th, obviously there was the attacks on the U.S. embassy in Baghdad. They point to that context as the reason for the strike. But let's turn to impeachment, because you do want to talk about it apparently.

You've said, you have heard enough evidence to vote to convict President Trump in the Senate trial. Take a listen to the number two Senate Democrat, your whip, Senator Dick Durbin, on this show just a couple of weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: It is a mistake for your fellow senators on both sides of the aisle frankly to say how they're going to vote before the trial starts?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I really think it is. I think they have gone too far. You know, how can they hold their hands up and say, I swear impartial justice. You can't do that. They shouldn't have done that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That is the Democratic leader of the Senate saying that you and others should not have said that you would vote to convict him, is he wrong?

WARREN: Look, I have enormous respect for Senator Durbin. But understand this. What I said is enough evidence has been presented and so far Donald Trump has offered absolutely no defense. It is not like they have come forward and said, oh, wait, we want to present some other evidence. The other evidence is going to show something different. They have done nothing. In fact, they have done worse than nothing.

[09:35:00]

What they have said is you can't hear from the witnesses who have first-hand information and you can't get the documents that you need to see to have more evidence about what is happening. They are defying a court order.

Remember about separation of powers? They're under an order to release documents and refusing to do it. So, the way I look at this is I see the evidence that is in front of us. I see the fact that they are not putting forward any defense and I see that they are trying to block any access to additional first-hand information.

Boy, that tells me this is someone who has violated the law. And this is someone who needs to be held accountable. No one is above the law, not even the president of the United States, and that is what impeachment is about.

TAPPER: I wanted to turn to Medicare for All, a major issue on the campaign trail. You and Senator Bernie Sanders both support Medicare for All though you have different approaches to how to transition into that. You have a phase in plan for Medicare for All that will require passing a second law halfway through your term. I want you to take a listen to what Bernie Sanders had to say when he was asked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that it is not going to be an easy fight, but I think we're going to succeed. So we are going to do it right away. I think that is the difference that we have with Senator Warren.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Senator Sanders also recently said that your transition period to Medicare for All is -- quote -- "quite different" from his own. Why do you think your transition plan is better than his?

WARREN: So, look, I want to get the maximum amount of health to the maximum number of people as quickly as possible, and the reason for that is people are suffering. Thirty-six million Americans last year did not have a prescription filled that the doctor had written, because they couldn't afford it. That shouldn't happen in this nation.

So, my plan is first, do what I can as president on day one. I will defend the Affordable Care Act and strengthen it against the sabotage that the Trump administration has been undergoing.

And second, I'm going to bring down the cost of prescription drugs. I'll use the powers that are already granted by law to the president to come in and reduce the cost of insulin and EpiPens and HIV aids drugs. Key drugs that we can bring down costs by hundreds of millions of dollars for families all across this country.

And then in the first 100 days, I will do what we can do by a vote of 50. And that is, because I have figured out how the pay for Medicare for All by not increasing taxes one thin dime on middle-class families. We have enough money to offer a generous opportunity for people to get full health care coverage. A hundred and thirty-five million people can get full health care coverage, Medicare for All, all of the way through at no cost. And we can have coverage for others at a very subsidized price. So it is only a modest cost.

Let's let Americans experience what this is about. What it is like to have you and -- your health care is between you and your doctor or your mental health professional or your nurse practitioner or your physical therapist --

TAPPER: Right.

WARREN: -- without having an insurance company standing in the middle saying no, no, no.

TAPPER: I get all of that, but why is your transition better than his?

WARREN: When we do that then we will be in a position to vote for Medicare for All.

TAPPER: Because you think --

WARREN: I'm sorry?

TAPPER: You think your transition period is better than his because it needs to be built upon and his is too much, too quickly?

WARREN: It gets the most help to the most people the quickest possible. Help starts on day one and then it's full health care coverage for 135 million people to be able to opt-in to it at absolutely no cost. We can do that --

TAPPER: So do you think his is unrealistic?

WARREN: -- on a 50-vote -- we can do that on a 50-vote budget reconciliation, and get help to people. Let people experience it.

I want a lot have a lot of allies in this fight to make health care available to every single American. I am committed to health care for all Americans. Health care is a basic human right. I wanted to do it in a way --

TAPPER: Yes.

WARREN: -- that gets as many Americans as much help as quickly as we can, build our alliances, and then we can move to Medicare for All for everyone. That's the vote we will take.

TAPPER: So, by the end of your first term, yes or no, would your plan ban most private health insurance by the end of the first term?

WARREN: It would transition everyone to Medicare for All. We will provide health care coverage to everyone. No cost increase to middle- class family and think what that will mean.

[09:40:03]

The average family last year spent out of pocket about $12,000 on health insurance, premiums, and co-pays and deductibles and uncovered expenses. They don't have to do that. It is like a $12,000 tax cut for millions of people across this country.

TAPPER: So --

WARREN: That's money that they can spend in their local economy. That's money that people can use to save up to buy a home. That means people are free to leave the employer they are with and start their own small business or go to work for a small business. This is real change that will affect families where they live and it's within our reach.

TAPPER: So it sounds like that is a yes, that the private health insurance will be banned by the end of the first term. Go ahead.

WARREN: It's -- it's that we will transition to Medicare for All for everyone.

TAPPER: Right.

WARREN: That's the vote we'll have.

TAPPER: OK.

WARREN: And I'll be out there fighting for it, because I think it is the right thing to do. But understand this, I'm going to get help to people on the first day. We need to start making changes, we need to have the courage to do that from day one. And that's what I'm going to do.

TAPPER: But let's talk about that -- let's talk about that because if you're going to do this on day one, you would obviously need Democrats to take back the Senate in 2020. If that happens, and that's an if, it would be because of more moderate Democrats in purple states, such as Colorado or Maine or Arizona, the three leading Democratic candidates in those races have all publicly said that they do not support Medicare for All, so how would you get it through the Senate when the Democrats would oppose it?

WARREN: So, remember, Jake, what I said I'll do on day one doesn't take a change in the law. We can do the defense of the Affordable Care Act without any changes in the law and I can reduce the cost of prescription drugs without any changes in the law, but on a budget reconciliation, on 50 votes, I have a way to be able to pay for health care coverage for people all across this country by not increasing taxes on middle-class families. To offer as an option to 135 million people the opportunity to have full health care coverage at no cost --

TAPPER: But this is buying into the public option, right? This is a public option that you would be offering?

WARREN: Well, this is -- it is not buying-in.

TAPPER: Right, right.

WARREN: It's 135 million people who would have the option to have 100 percent health care coverage at no cost. And then offering the rest of America at a modest cost to be able to get 100 percent coverage. That's an opportunity for people all across this country. They don't have to do it, but it gives them a chance, and it gives them a chance to experience what health care is like.

If you don't have an insurance company standing in between saying, I'm sorry, we don't cover that, doctor, we don't cover that prescription, that one is out of network. It is to give people the experience of full health care coverage, and we can pay for it by asking the top 1 percent to pay more, by asking companies like Amazon who made $10 billion in reported profits last year and paid nothing in taxes to pay, and my personal favorite, by cracking down on the tax cheats at the top.

We make those changes, and we have enough money to provide health care for everyone in this country. Let's let people experience that, and then we can vote on the transition for everyone.

TAPPER: You'll have a -- you'll have some salesmanship to do if you are the president and those Democrats actually retake the majority, because I don't know that they are as of right now willing to support that. But let's move on because you released new numbers --

WARREN: You know --

TAPPER: Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

WARREN: But I just want to say one thing on that though, Jake. This helps the American people, and the bottom line is I believe in democracy.

You know, I was in the Senate back after Donald Trump was elected and the Republicans had the House, had the Senate and had the White House. They had the votes to be able to repeal the Affordable Care Act in the first week. And yet, ultimately, even though the House voted to repeal, we held on in the Senate, and the reason was because people across this nation said, health care matters to me. And I want more health care.

People marched. People who were never political took to the streets. People said, this matters. I believe that's democracy in action and I believe that's the kind of change we're ready to make as Americans. We are ready to hold our government accountable and say enough of the drug companies, enough of the insurance companies.

[09:45:06]

Make this health care system work for me and for my family. That's what's within our reach.

TAPPER: Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts running for president, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

WARREN: Thank you for having me.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source