CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) Reacts To President Trump's Pending Impeachment Trial

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SCIUTTO: Kaitlan Collins in Florida, thanks very much. OUTFRONT now, Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon. He is a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, we appreciate you taking the time tonight.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Oh, you're welcome, Jim. Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So Senator, according to "The Times," Mulvaney was warned Congress could become unhinged. I mean, naturally because of course, Congress in bipartisan votes passed this aid and by the Constitution, it is Congress that has the control over the purse strings in effect.

[19:05:12]

SCIUTTO: Yet, the President was defiant here. Bolton, Pompeo, Esper -- they tried to stop him. He refused. What does this mean about the Senate trial? Should Bolton, Pompeo, and Esper testify?

MERKLEY: Absolutely. We are being charged with an oath that will take the beginning of the trial to have a completely impartial role in evaluating the evidence, but you can't evaluate the evidence if you don't have the evidence in front of you.

And so we have this whole check and balance in our Constitution and the Senate plays a critical role. It is our role to go beyond our Democratic or Republican parties and really be defenders of the Constitution and pursue this trial as if the President was of the opposite party. Otherwise we're simply failing at our task. SCIUTTO: Well, as you know, the numbers in the Senate, Republicans

have the advantage, 53 to 47. To get the witnesses you want, you may need to do some horse trading here. And I wonder, would you be willing to in effect trade, a demand for Joe Biden's testimony in return for the testimony of senior Trump administration officials such as Bolton, Mulvaney, Esper and others?

MERKLEY: You're right that there is going to be a negotiation of that that sort and Schumer is leading and will continue to lead that effort for the Democrats.

My feeling is that for it to be a fair and full trial, the defense needs to be able to pull in and present people that feel have relevant information and a way to frame that information.

And so if they are -- I personally believe if they think that there's value in certain witnesses to come forward, those folks should testify and be present. But in the House --

SCIUTTO: That sounds like you're leaving the door open to the former Vice President Biden testifying in your mind. Would you support that as a member of the Senate? You're going to be a juror.

MERKLEY: Well, I'm trying to approach it as that impartial juror saying you need to have the information brought to bear by the prosecutors, but you also have to allow the defendant, the President to be able to present his case fairly.

And hopefully those two visions could both be fulfilled, and then we'd actually be able to have something akin to what the Constitution envisioned.

SCIUTTO: As you know, Senator Schumer, Democratic Leader McConnell, they have yet to reach a deal on the parameters of the trial, which is what Speaker Pelosi has been asking for before she hands those Articles of Impeachment over to the Senate.

Have you been kept abreast of those negotiations? Do you know where they stand? And will there be some sort of agreement or will McConnell just go forward as he pleases?

MERKLEY: There's been no conference call today in which we've been filled in on the latest turn and twist, but this is fascinating development, because no one really envisioned that we'd have a situation where the Majority Leader of the Senate would proceed to say that they were not going to work towards having the trial the Constitution envisions, instead we're going to work hand in fist with the defendant.

And thus, what Pelosi is doing is drawing attention to that and saying this is an absurdity. It is meaningless for us to hand over information if the system is rigged from the start and the Senate is not going to do its job.

So I think she's do something very valuable in using this moment of holding up the transfer of the impeachment documents to the Senate. SCIUTTO: But I wonder how that if that in your view undermines the

Democrats' argument going into this, which is that this is an urgent matter, that this relates to the 2020 election, and therefore we have to proceed quickly and yet now once those Impeachment Articles have been passed by the House, American say, but wait a second, you're waiting to transmit them to the Senate? How can it be an urgent matter if they are not urgently moved on to the next step of the process?

MERKLEY: Well, actually, I think they are compatible because it is urgent that we proceed with a fair and full exploration of the facts in the Senate. And if Mitch McConnell is not going to fulfill his constitutional responsibility to lead that effort, then it's appropriate for Pelosi to call attention to that and try to create some leverage to kind of slap the Senate leadership upside the head and say, remember, you're taking an oath of office. You've already taken an oath to the Constitution. Now, you're taking one to the trial. You have a responsibility here and it needs to be fulfilled.

SCIUTTO: Senator Jeff Merkley, we appreciate you joining the broadcast and wish Happy Holidays to you and your family tonight.

MERKLEY: Happy Holidays, Jim.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source