CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D) Maryland is Interviewed About Impeachment Process, Government Accountability Office; Government Watchdog

Interview

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Let's get some more on all of this. Joining us now is Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MA): Great to be with you Wolf.

BLITZER: I want to talk about the history of what happened today. What was it like when you were in the Senate? You were on the Senate floor. You were sworn in by the Chief Justice of the United States John Roberts and then you signed that ledger.

HOLLEN: It was a solemn moment. I mean, the way that history was I think on the Senate chamber and on senators and when you signed the book and raise your hand and take the oath to do justice, that's an important moment. And now the question is whether the Senate will live up to that oath.

BLITZER: What was the mood among, not just your democratic colleagues, but your Republican colleagues as well when you were all sworn in and you all individually had to sign?

HOLLEN: Yes, I think people recognize the seriousness of the moment. You have the Chief Justice of the United States presiding the United States Senate. I've never seen that. Obviously, that occurred back -- during the last impeachment trial of a president.

BLITZER: That was 21 years ago.

HOLLEN: That was 21 years ago. And so the moment I do think sunk in for senators. The question is whether that moment and that feeling will stick and whether people will recognize the seriousness of the job, not just the moment.

BLITZER: So what are you anticipating? What are you expecting will happen starting at 1:00 p.m. on Tuesday when the formal arguments will be made first from the Democrats, the House managers, they'll have a few days to make their case. Then the White House counsel will make their case. That will be a few days. What do you anticipating?

HOLLEN: Well, the first thing that will happen was Senator McConnell will seek approval of the motion he will put forward to govern the first part of this trial. And at that time, Senator Schumer will make motions seeking witnesses.

We just heard the conversation that you have been having with others about why we have to hear from key witnesses. It's not unusual for new evidence to come out during the trial. And for Republicans to take the position that they don't want to hear anything or see anything is a dereliction of their duty. So, you're going to be hearing motions for that coming up in that first base.

BLITZER: Well, assuming that there is 47 Democrats, 53 Republicans, Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, doesn't want to have that fight right now. He says wait until after both sides make their respective cases, their arguments, then you can have a discussion about witnesses. And he says that's what happened during the Bill Clinton impeachment trial.

HOLLEN: Well, of course, the major distinction between the Clinton trial and this trial is in the Clinton trial, all the witnesses that they wanted to call for the trial in the Senate had previously testified under oath in related proceedings. Where as in it this case, the witnesses we're seeking are witnesses who did not testify in the House. Why? Because President Trump block them from doing so and block the documents.

But it may well be the case that Senator McConnell has the votes for the first phase to not have witnesses. But make no mistake, Republican senators will be facing that vote later in the trial.

BLITZER: That's where both sides make their arguments.

HOLLEN: Yes.

BLITZER: I want to talk to you about the Government Accountability Office bomb shell today --

HOLLEN: Yes.

BLITZER: -- in which they accused the Trump administration of actually breaking federal law by delaying the delivery of $400 million in military assistance to Ukraine. I know you've been involved in looking at that as well.

HOLLEN: Yes, I asked the GAO about this question back in October during a hearing. And then about a month ago asked them for a formal legal opinion. And today's decision was a bomb shell, right? This is a nonpartisan, independent organization that determined conclusively that the Trump administration violated the law when they illegally withheld funds from Ukraine.

BLITZER: I just want to point out, the money was appropriated nearly $400 million by the House and the Senate and signed into law by the President.

HOLLEN: And signed into law by the President. And so the President has a duty to faithfully execute the laws. That's what the GAO said. And by illegally withholding those moneys, he violated the Empowerment Control Act. And this of course was part of the President's overall scheme and abuse of power. And it's important to recognize that it.

We have other public evidence that the President directed the agencies to withhold the funds. So the President directed the agencies to commit an illegal act.

BLITZER: Do you want Lev Parnas, the Rudy Giuliani associate is now under criminal indictment, to testify before the Senate trial?

HOLLEN: Well, the revelations he talked about really are block busters. The House managers will have to determine whether or not they want to seek his testimony. They already have a lot of the documents. And the documents they already have many of them will be part of the trial.

We're expecting they will get more information. And that should be included in the trial. As to whether or not the call him in person, really that's a question for the House managers to determine.

BLITZER: Adam Schiff the lead House manager and his colleagues--

HOLLEN: That's right.

BLITZER: -- they can make that decision --

HOLLEN: That's right. But it just under scores, Wolf.

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BLITZER: -- to see if the majority 51 votes in the Senate won't allow that.

HOLLEN: Well, exactly. And that's the real test. I mean, we talked about the solemn nature of the moment. But the question is whether the Senate will live up to the constitutional requirement that we try this case and a trial requires getting to the truth. And that means getting the evidence.

BLITZER: Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland as usual, thanks so for coming in. Appreciated it very much.

HOLLEN: Good to be here, thank you.

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