CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Rep. Pramila Jayapal

Interview

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Joining us now, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, a Democrat who serves on the House Judiciary Committee.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

And let me get right to the news. House staffers, as you know, they're using the holiday recess over these next several days to prepare for a Senate trial.

Do you want the speaker to send the articles of impeachment over to the Senate as soon as you're back in session January 6, 7, along those lines, even if the Senate rules don't match Pelosi's expectations?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, I think it's really about, are the Senate rules going to be fair?

And I think it's entirely appropriate for the speaker to say that, in this unprecedented moment, where you have the foreman of the jury saying that he is coordinating with the defendant and that he's not going to be impartial -- I'm talking about Mitch McConnell here, of course, the guy that sets the rules for the trial -- I think it's entirely appropriate that the speaker wants to see exactly what this trial is going to look like before she names the impeachment managers, before she sends the articles over.

[18:10:18]

But let us be very, very clear about what has happened here. The president abused his power, coerced a foreign ally to interfere in our elections, and obstructed Congress by refusing to provide us with a single defendant or a single witness or a single document.

And so we have impeached the president of the United States because no man is above the law, not even the president. So Mitch McConnell should understand at this point that the responsibility and the gravity of the situation now rests with him, and, frankly, with the American people.

To see the edit -- the op-ed today from "Christianity Today," I was very moved by that, Wolf. The president likes to sometimes use religion whenever it's convenient. But here you have an evangelical publication saying that, not only did he abuse his power, but that his actions have -- he and his actions have been profoundly immoral.

That is very important for the Republican senators to now step up and have the courage to do what is right and remove this President Trump office.

BLITZER: Yes, that was a very strong editorial in "Christianity Today."

JAYAPAL: Yes.

BLITZER: What's your reaction to that tweet from the president when he said Nancy Pelosi, the speaker, seeking some sort of quid pro quo with the Senate, and then he says, why aren't we impeaching her?

JAYAPAL: Can you do anything other than shake your head to the things that the president says? He is absolutely outrageous. To suggest that the speaker of the House should be impeached is a ridiculous idea.

This speaker has led in such a dignified manner. She has more class than Donald Trump could ever hope to have. But, most importantly, she respects the Constitution and the checks and balances, something that this president does not do.

So, it's just not even worth looking at his tweets, because they are absurd, and they are so beneath the office of the president. But this is what he does, Wolf. Anybody who doesn't agree with him, he attacks. Any facts he doesn't like, he makes things up. Any witnesses that he doesn't want to testify, he bullies.

This is the kind of abuse of power that has led to this grave situation of betraying our national security, our Constitution, and our values, by inviting a foreign power to interfere in our elections.

That is untenable.

BLITZER: One of your key witnesses during the impeachment hearings in the House of Representatives, Professor Noah Feldman of Harvard Law School, says President Trump isn't actually impeached until the House transfers those articles of impeachment to the U.S. Senate.

What do you make of his analysis?

JAYAPAL: Well, I -- he was an excellent witness.

I'm sure he -- he has probably looked at something that I haven't seen. But, here, I think we again are talking about this unprecedented situation that comes down to the outrageous behavior of Mitch McConnell.

This really is unprecedented for the Senate. And, remember, Wolf, in other impeachment trials, we have not had different parties controlling the two chambers. So, this has never come up before. You have always had the same party controlling both chambers.

This is different, where you have the president's party controlling one chamber, and essentially denying a fair trial from the get-go. So I think what we know is not the technicality of when impeachment actually occurs.

But what we know is that the majority of the House has voted out two articles of impeachment for the third time ever in the history of this country. This president has been impeached. And that is what it is important for the American people to focus on is, why? Because of his abuse of power and his obstruction of Congress.

BLITZER: I'm sure you saw the "Washington Post" report that President Trump told a former White House officials that he knew Ukraine was the real culprit behind the 2016 election interference here in the United States because, according to this article in "The Washington Post," he quoted -- he said this: "Putin told me."

How concerning is that to you?

JAYAPAL: It's really concerning.

And during the hearing, I kept making the point over and over again during our markup of the impeachment articles that this president has done this before, he is doing it now, and he will do it again.

And that is -- the president is the smoking gun. He keeps telling us exactly what he believes. So, we don't need to look anywhere else. Now the smoking gun is reloaded, and he's going to fire it again for the 2020 election, if we don't stop him.

So, that's what's very, very, deeply concerning. But, also, I would just say that all of their excuses for what the president has done are being torn down over and over again.

[18:15:08] The president still hasn't released the full military aid to the -- to the Ukraine, and refused to allow for a provision to be put into the spending bill that he would release it.

Now the Department of Justice has filed briefs in the Don McGahn subpoenas saying that this should be a matter that's left to the legislative branch and the executive branch, and the courts should not be involved.

They're essentially playing rope-a-dope with the judiciary and trying to delay things and stop us from even getting the courts to weigh in. But this is a -- it's a roundabout argument, because they spent a long time arguing we should wait for the courts. Now they're saying the courts have nothing to do with this, and this should be settled between the legislative branch and the executive branch.

So, no defenses that are at all based in any kind of fact, just process complaints and continued obstruction.

BLITZER: You guys are going to have a lot of work over the next several weeks.

JAYAPAL: We will.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

JAYAPAL: Thank you, Wolf.

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