CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) is Interviewed About Impeachment

Interview

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BLITZER: So the President gets a major, major victory on this trade deal with Canada and Mexico. Thanks very much for that.

Let's discuss the latest developments with Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii. She's a Democrat who serves on the Judiciary Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Thank you.

BLITZER: The House is leaving for the holidays as you know without sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate. Do you support this decision by the Speaker Nancy Pelosi?

HIRONO: I think it makes perfect sense for the Speaker to say that the Senate should establish its rules as to how we are going to proceed with the impeachment trial before she appoints her managers. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position to take. And that's the position she's taking.

BLITZER: What concessions can the Speaker hope to win from the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell when he isn't even eager to hold a trial to begin with?

HIRONO: The negotiations will take place between Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell. And if we can get four brave Republican senators to agree to having witnesses then we will be able to have witnesses. But it's going to take the Republicans to come forward, four of them, at least, for that to happen. And so we will establish the rules and the procedures. Whether they are fair or not we can argue over.

And frankly I don't necessarily expect it to be fair because Mitch McConnell has made it plain that he doesn't want to call any witnesses. So once again, we are confronted with the Republicans who have nothing to offer that addresses what the President did, which was to shake down the president of another country for his own political ends using almost $400 million in taxpayer money as the bribe.

See, they don't address that. They are constantly turning to other things and saying, oh, what about this and what about that, what about this? I say, you know what we should be looking at what the President did. And they have no defense.

Now the trial is an opportunity for the President to mount his defense. And I am calling on him to do that. And I would say witnesses such as Mulvaney and Bolton who were right there, they could exonerate the President. They should come forward. But the President doesn't want them to testify. I wonder why.

BLITZER: If they testified under oath, they might exonerate the President.

HIRONO: Well, of course.

BLITZER: And maybe not. I assume one of those four brave Republicans you're referring to would be someone like Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, for example who's been critical of the President from time to time. But, now he says he doesn't have any reason to question Mitch McConnell's approach. Could you really count on any Republicans to back you in calling for witnesses?

HIRONO: No. I am not holding my breath that four senators will come forward to say we should have witnesses. This is a definition of a fair trial. So, what we're going to end up is, we will have procedures, we will have rules. They would not be what we would like but there you have it. And that's why this is yet another example of how the Republicans simply cannot address directly what the President did. Because, you know, if so, then they are really saying the President did it, so what. It's what I call the so what defense.

And this is what Chuck Schumer is talking about. If we do not hold the President accountable for shaking down the president of another country in doing what he did, then we know for a fact that this President is going to continue to abuse his powers. And he will thumb his nose at anything that Congress does in terms of subpoenas.

So, you know what, if this is the kinds of democracy we are living in, that is not a democracy, that is a totalitarian state. And I think Trump really likes that. He sees himself as a dictator. He likes that. He thinks he can do anything he wants as president this country including shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue and not being held accountable for it.

BLITZER: Let me get your thoughts on some of the Republican arguments we heard on the House floor yesterday. Watch this. This is Congressman Mike Kelly. Listen to this.

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REP. MIKE KELLY (R-PA): On December 7, 1941 a horrific act happen in the United States. And this one that President Roosevelt said this a date that we'll live in infamy. Today, December the 18th, 2019 is another day that will live in infamy.

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BLITZER: So he is comparing this impeachment vote in the House to bombing of Pearl Harbor which drew the United States, of course, into World War II Pearl Harbor being in your home state of Hawaii. What's your reaction to that?

HIRONO: The Republicans who have come up with any argument that they can, but they cannot come up to defending -- they can't come up with anything to defend what the President did. So it's all these distractions. They even liken the President to Jesus Christ. Good grief. How can you take these people seriously? You know, it's what I call that these arguments are rhetorical nothing burgers. They keep tossing them out bass they can't address the main question.

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And when they do, and if they do not hold this President accountable they are really saying he did it, so what. Mulvaney pretty much said that. Hey, everybody, get used to it. No. This is not a getting used to it kind of a situation. We have a President who is out of control.

BLITZER: And clearly you are not getting used to it. Senator Hirono --

HIRONO: Of course not. I'm fighting back every minute and moment.

BLITZER: I can see. Thank so much for joining us.

HIRONO: Happy holidays.

BLITZER: Happy holidays. Merry Christmas, happy New Year. Appreciate it very much.

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