CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Mazie Hirono

Interview

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Hawaii Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono will be one of the Impeachment Jurors. She also sits on the Judiciary Committee. I spoke to her just before airtime.

[21:05:00]

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COOPER: Senator, what's your reaction to the President saying he'll invoke Executive privilege to block John Bolton from testifying in the impeachment trial?

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Oh, this is part of the President's ongoing desire to stonewall that - first, the impeachment inquiry in the House, and basically to throw out a blanket immunity position.

And there's no such - such - there's no such thing as a blanket immunity. And also, you can't invoke Executive privilege or immunity to cover up crimes.

COOPER: I mean, Executive privilege does apply between conversations between the President and - and his National Security Advisor, wouldn't it?

HIRONO: Well one would think if it has actually something to do with national security, but this has everything to do with protecting and covering up the President's crimes.

COOPER: Could Bolton still testify about conversations he had with Gordon Sondland or Mick Mulvaney without even dealing with Executive privilege?

HIRONO: I sure think so. And so, he's perfectly willing to testify should the Senate subpoena him, and that's what the Senate should do.

And so, now that the Speaker is sending the articles of impeachment, the focus is once - once again on what kind of trial will take place in the Senate, and that trial should include relevant witnesses, and relevant documents, neither of which the President is willing to produce.

And so, just as the President was trying to basically rig the election, for himself, by leaning on the President of another country to do his political dirty work, using $400 million of taxpayer money for that purpose, he's trying to rig the trial in the Senate by preventing witnesses, relevant witnesses, and information from coming forward.

COOPER: Given how things are, do you think the Senate will even try to subpoena Bolton and given what the - the President is clearly telegraphing here?

HIRONO: Well one would hope - I would hope that there would be four courageous Senators who want to have a fair trial.

And I'm hearing that perhaps Susan Collins who, during the Clinton impeachment trial, said "Yes, we should have witnesses," so apparently she's having some talks with some other Republican Senators.

But it is going to take four of them to break ranks, and go along with the Democrats, in calling for Bolton, Mulvaney, and the two other witnesses to testify, and production of the documents. I hope they do that.

COOPER: What--

HIRONO: That would be a surprise, frankly.

COOPER: We did hear - we did--

HIRONO: But a welcome one.

COOPER: We did hear obviously from Fiona Hill in - in the House, who obviously worked for - for Bolton, who spoke about his concern about the pressure in Ukraine, his calling it a - a - a "Drug deal."

HIRONO: Mm hmm.

COOPER: Given that if, I mean, if that was all Bolton was prepared to tell the Senate, I guess there's the question of why would the President then try to stop him from appearing, unless the President is concerned A, about precedent of Executive privilege, which is perhaps possible, or some - it concerns something else that Bolton knows.

HIRONO: I think you hit it on the nail. The President is very afraid of what Bolton is going to testify too.

And you have a President who thinks that he can do anything he wants, as President, including shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue. And so, he's invoking blanket Executive privilege.

I think he's very afraid of what Bolton will testify to because Bolton, I don't think, is interested in perjuring himself. COOPER: It's strange some of the other Senators have come up with interesting ideas of what the way that the Senate should operate in this trial.

I - I believe it was Marco Rubio who was saying that only - you should only go in the evidence that other witnesses had already brought up in the House. There should be no new witnesses, as if that's some sort of precedent. That's not - really not a thing. I mean it's a trial.

HIRONO: Actually--

COOPER: Witnesses can be called.

HIRONO: Actually the precedent of all of the impeachment trials that have been conducted in the Senate did have witnesses.

So, I don't know where Marco is coming up with this kind of explanation, except that he's totally supporting the President and the President's desire to cover-up and rig the Senate trial.

COOPER: Even if you know that the President can invoke Executive privilege, and would use - and there were enough Republicans on board, who were willing to subpoena Bolton, would you want Bolton subpoenaed to the Senate chamber, I mean, just to make him relay that claim in person on television, or - or would that just be a waste of time?

HIRONO: Well what I would like to see is the Senate vote to subpoena Bolton's testimony.

And then, the President is going to have to figure out a way to assert his Executive privilege, and have that stick, possibly in court, and the burden will be on the President, at that point, to show that--

COOPER: Senator--

HIRONO: --Bolton shouldn't testify and that Executive privilege applies.

COOPER: Senator Hirono, I appreciate your time, thank you.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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