CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Jeff Merkley

Interview

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COOPER: We talked before the break how the case made today by Democrats is being received and who it's being tailored for. It was, whatever you may think of it on the merits, a thorough presentation. I talked about it just before air time with Jeff Merkley, a Democrat of Oregon.

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COOPER: Senator Merkley, it's really been a long two days. I'm wondering what do you think the biggest take away at the end of today is.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Well, I was really struck about two things today. One was we've all had bits and pieces of the story, but today it was painted into a large arc, an arc that covered nearly a year in which the strategy of investigating the Bidens and Ukraine went from the back burner before Biden declared for office to the front burner right at the same time that a new government was being elected in Ukraine and the new government, President Zelensky became the pressure point, the person being asked to deliver on help for the Trump administration.

And just laying that out in this arc was very useful. And then it also really addressed the issue of to what degree was the U.S. government really trying to help Zelensky, who campaigned against corruption, take on corruption. And the answer is we weren't. We weren't.

We took out our Ambassador Yovanovitch who was a champion for helping fight corruption. We didn't provide any new programs to Zelensky, the new president, who actually wanted to have help taking on corruption.

The Defense Department said they were doing everything possible and released the aid, and then we held back the aid rather than supporting the new government and helping them stand up against the Russians. So, this, the picture is becoming much clearer.

COOPER: We're not able to see what's happening in the room when people are speaking in terms of what the other senators are doing. Are -- you know, right now Democrats are making presentations. Are Republicans listening? Are they -- I mean, are they present, are they listening, are they engaged?

MERKLEY: They are present, they are listening. I don't think you could distinguish between the two sides of the room if you were looking at it.

[23:29:59]

On both sides you'll periodically see a number of people standing up going to the back of the room, stretching, while continuing to see a little bit of whispering, a little bit of note passing, a little bit of eating some food out of their desk. But it's a lot of hours. I don't think you really wouldn't get a sense that one side was listening and one wasn't. I think the Republicans definitely are paying attention.

COOPER: As part of the Democrats' presentation, we're seeing a lot of video clips, witness testimony from the House impeachment hearings. Is that a way to get those witnesses on the record in the Senate in case witnesses are not allowed?

MERKLEY: Yes, it's very helpful to actually see people speaking and listen to them and their voice, see their facial expressions, very different than just reading about it on a piece of paper. And I must say I'm not yet optimistic that we will get the witnesses and documents to make this a full, fair trial.

I listened to a couple of my colleagues during one of the break and they were speaking to cameras saying, well, we don't see why we need witnesses. The House says they had a strong case. That's good enough for us. We'll just listen to what the House managers say and make a decision. I hope -- I really hope my colleagues across the aisle join together to fight for the vision of a full and fair trial with documents, with witnesses.

COOPER: Do you think -- I mean, it will take, what, four Republicans. Do you think there are four Republicans who would push for any kind of witness?

MERKLEY: I think there's far more than four who are thinking about it. But I also know that they're going to get a tremendous amount of pressure from the president's team and from McConnell to shut this down and not put witnesses or documents before the body.

COOPER: There's going to be two more days for Democrats to make their case and then the president's attorneys will make theirs. Jay Sekulow, one of the attorneys for the president, previewed part of their defense today saying, quote, "Notice what's not in the articles of impeachment, allegations or accusations of quid pro quo. That's because they didn't exist." To that, what do you say?

MERKLEY: Well, a couple of things. Every piece of evidence from every direction points towards a quid pro quo, and that is that both a meeting with the president, our President Trump, was held up and aid was held up in exchange for creating pressure for the new president of Ukraine to announce investigations into the Bidens and into the 2016 election to see if Ukraine played any role in that.

That just comes out in every possible way. In at least three cases, you have people who are very close to the president. We have Mulvaney, who spoke in open to the press, saying there was a quid pro quo. And we have Sondland, who was speaking to the president then immediately spoke with other people about how the president created or spoke to this.

And then we have certainly others who were in that inner circle who were a pace or two removed, but also had kind of this understanding, this high understanding of the arrangement.

COOPER: Senator Merkley, thank you.

MERKLEY: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Ahead, President Trump returns from abroad after talking about what he's withholding from the impeachment trial. We'll have a live report from the White House, next.

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