NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Thank you, sir. When we come back, the New Hampshire Primary frontrunner. Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next. And as we go to break, some of what we've been hearing from New Hampshire voters.
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FEMALE VOICE:
I know there's a big Bernie wave, but I'm really not sure how much he can unite the party.
MALE VOICE:
I just worry about the electability questions.
FEMALE VOICE:
Elizabeth Warren all the way, but I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is.
MALE VOICE:
Bernie has an amazing following of young people.
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(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
What began last week in Iowa, what voters here in New Hampshire confirmed tonight, is nothing short of the beginning of a political revolution.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. That was exactly four years ago to the day, if you saw the little date stamp up there, after Bernie Sanders defeated Hillary Clinton by a whopping 22 points in the 2016 New Hampshire primary. There aren't going to be any 22 point wins this year, as this year's primary has become a real tossup between Sanders, Buttigieg, and perhaps even more in this field. And Senator Bernie Sanders joins me now. Welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
I wanna talk about a little bit of Iowa and '16 a little bit. You are a believer that your candidacy is about turning people out. At the end of the day turnout was disappointing. You have admitted that in Iowa. If we don't see record-breaking turnout here, does this undermine the -- sort of the biggest point you make on electability, which is nobody else can bring out the young vote but you.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well --
CHUCK TODD:
But if you can't get other voters, isn't that an issue?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, you know what? You're right. The voter turnout in Iowa was not what I wanted, and I think other candidates were not able to bring out their voters as well.
CHUCK TODD:
That's right.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
But at the end of the day, we won the Iowa vote by 6,000. We won the realignment vote by 2,500. And from where I come, by the way, that's a victory. But here's something really important, not talked at a whole lot. The young vote, of people under 29 years of age, increased by 33% over where it was four years ago, and was even higher than Obama's extraordinary victory in 2008. So young people did come out in very big numbers, which I think is a great omen for the 2020 campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
Except you can't win voters outside of that very well. I mean, you were in single digits among older voters. And I say this because older voters vote.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
The answer is yes and no. The answer is we are having -- and we have got to work on this issue, because my record for senior citizens is a very strong record, and we're going to work on that. I'm the strongest defender you could see in defending Social Security and so forth. But in terms of Democrats, in terms of running against Trump, we do just fine with senior citizens. They'll vote for me against Trump if they're Democrats.
CHUCK TODD:
You have been railing in the different ways other people raise money.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
If you're the nominee, Michael Bloomberg has said if he's not the nominee, he still wants to spend all his money defeating Donald Trump. Are you going to refuse that help?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No, look. Let's talk about money in politics. Right now, our campaign, as you know, at this moment, has received more campaign contributions from more Americans, averaging $18.50, than any candidate in the history of American politics. That's extraordinary. We are funded by the working families of America. Teachers are the profession that is contributing most. We get a lot of contributions from Amazon workers and so forth. We have, unlike my opponents -- you know, Pete Buttigieg who was just here, really nice guy. I like Pete. He has received I believe over -- contributions from over 40 billionaires. Joe Biden, the same.
CHUCK TODD:
Can a billionaire not have an issue about income inequality? Can a billionaire not be wanting --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Here's the problem --
CHUCK TODD:
-- to see expanded healthcare? I mean, these are individuals too.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
They are. And Mike Bloomberg has every right in the world to run. He was mayor of New York City. He has a right to defend his record. But I think it speaks to a corrupt political system when billionaires can buy elections. You want to run for president? That's fine, but you should not be able to, you know, spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, by the way, to answer your question, because of the broad base of support that we have from working families, now, they may only contribute $25 or $50, we will be able to raise the money we need to defeat Trump. And I believe we are the strongest candidate --
CHUCK TODD:
So you don't --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- to defeat Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
-- you don't want this help? Or do you think it undermines --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, right now --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think a wealthy -- I mean, look, you have some -- you have PACs helping you. They're not necessarily super PACs, but you have some outside groups that are helping you. Maybe you don't want them to help you right now --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I don't want them, that's right.
CHUCK TODD:
But you know they are.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
And there's people, there's half a million dollar --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Some of them are nurses --
CHUCK TODD:
-- some would call it dark money, yeah.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Some of them are nurses and some of them are immigration activists and some of them are civil rights activists.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. Do you not want their help?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We have a system which is broken.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
You know, and yeah, I'm saying right now if my opponents say they don't want that third party help, I'm all for that right now. Let's end it.
CHUCK TODD:
But right now you'll accept the help, as long as they're going to get it?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
It's legal. What can I do? You know, people have a right to participate in the political process. But again, getting back to the fundamental issue, the reason we have so much income inequality, the reason we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee healthcare to all people, the reason that almost all new income and wealth goes to the top 1% is precisely because of a corrupt political system which allows billionaires to have inordinate influence of the economic and political life of the country.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. The other issue that has the Democratic establishment, and you're sort of, you revel in this --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Are they nervous? Do you think --
CHUCK TODD:
-- you revel in this.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- they're getting nervous?
CHUCK TODD
They get nervous.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Okay.
CHUCK TODD:
And there's one word that gets them nervous. It's the word socialism.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Democratic socialism.
CHUCK TODD:
Democratic -- I understand. Democratic socialism. Do you acknowledge that in an economy that, on its surface, and I understand it is not working for everybody, but on its surface looks pretty good to quite a few people. This is a fairly low unemployment rate. Do you acknowledge it's tougher to sell your economic ideas in this perceived good economy?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I don't think so. I mean, I think Trump is a fraud. I think under Trump the top 1% -- the top 1% have seen hundreds of billions of dollars increase in their wealth. Do you know what real inflation accounted for increase in wages last year was for the average worker, worker? It was less than 1%.
CHUCK TODD:
And it's the first time it had gone up in a while.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Seventeen cents an hour.
CHUCK TODD:
It hadn't been going up for over a decade --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, but you know, how do you talk about an economy that's working when the people on top are making hundreds of billions of dollars more, and the average worker's making seventeen cents? We need an economy that works for working people.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, and if --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
And my agenda is that agenda. That's raising the minimum wage. That's healthcare for all. That's making sure that all of our kids, regardless of their income, can get to college or to trade school by imposing a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.
CHUCK TODD:
Somebody that likes their 401K right now but doesn't like the character of Donald Trump, how do you convince them to vote for you?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I convince them to vote for us because we are going to create an economy that works for the middle class, and working --
CHUCK TODD:
But they think their economy works well for them.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, for some of them it may. But --
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, it's been working well. That's my point --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Chuck, look here is the reality. Half of the American people today are living paycheck to paycheck. Today you got a half a million people sleeping out on the streets when you got three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of America. We're the only country in the world, major country in the world, not to guarantee healthcare to all people. We've got 45 million people struggling with student debt. Please don't tell me that this economy is working well for all people. It is working phenomenally well for Trump's billionaire friends, not for working classes --
CHUCK TODD:
The reason I bring up the S-word, democratic socialism, is because let's just take the swing state of Florida. I grew up in Miami, and I know what they're going to do to you. They're going to tie socialism to Venezuela. They're going to tie comments you made about Evo Morales and Bolivia. And --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yeah, what about Evo Morales? I mean --
CHUCK TODD:
-- you know, they're going to say you will appease socialists in Latin America. You have not condemned them the way others have condemned them, and use that to try get -- to wedge people. You know that is what they're going to do.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, they may -- look, we're dealing with a president who is a pathological liar. So what are we going to do? I mean, he's going to say anything he wants about me --
CHUCK TODD:
Right, but Evo Morales --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- about Joe Biden, about Pete Buttigieg --
CHUCK TODD:
You stood behind Evo Morales when he clearly went, you know --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No. I stood about Evo -- I stood with Evo Morales in condemning a coup. I do not like military coups.
CHUCK TODD:
He tried to read -- he tried to violate his country's --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No, there's a big debate --
CHUCK TODD:
-- constitution.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
There was, well, that's another discussion. I don't know that everybody's interested in Ecuador, but he was overthrown by the military. Not a particularly good president. We got a president of the United States who's cozying up to the autocrat, Putin, who says nice things about Kim Jong-un. You know, so you want to talk about cozying up to communists around the world --
CHUCK TODD:
No, I --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- it ain't me, it is Donald Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you a few quotes here from some members of congress who are concerned about your electability. Here's Ami Bera, Democrat in California: "If Bernie Sanders is our nominee it will make a lot of these Trump districts that we picked up extremely competitive, and probably does put our House majority in jeopardy." Conor Lamb: "I don't think I'd be doing my job as a representative to these people," in Western Pennsylvania he's referring to, "If I supported someone who wanted to destroy their livelihood." Specifically he's talking about fracking. Whether fair or not, this is the concern out there among a lot of elected Democrats.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, this is part of the establishment Democrats. And what I am suggesting is that we are going to bring -- you know, in 2016 and we'll see what happens in 2020, but I think the story will be the same. In a lot of districts which Trump ended up winning, we won during the primary process. Okay, I think a lot of working people understand that Trump is a fraud, that our campaign is in fact prepared to take on the billionaire class when Trump is part of the billionaire class. And I think we're going to win a lot of those districts. I think we're going to increase voter turnout among young people very, very successfully --
CHUCK TODD:
Will it hurt your candidacy if these candidates say, "I don't support his agenda" --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think at --
CHUCK TODD:
-- "but I'm running for reelection."
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- the end of the day, you're gonna see, you know, and I have said this and repeat it right now. I think I can speak for all of the Democratic candidates, and that is we will come together to defeat Donald Trump. I hope I am the nominee, I will come behind somebody else if they are the nominee.
CHUCK TODD:
In September of 2019, before your heart incident, you had said the following about your medical records. Take a listen.
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I think it's the right thing to do. The American people have the right know whether the person they're going to be voting for for president is healthy, and we will certainly release our medical records before the primaries. It will certainly be before the first votes are cast.
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CHUCK TODD:
The first votes have already been cast, you did not release your medical records. You released a few letters. Nobody interviewed your doctors. You did have a heart attack, apparently. Shouldn't voters see your medical records --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We have released as much --
CHUCK TODD:
-- before Super Tuesday?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- documentation, I think, as any other candidate.
CHUCK TODD:
But no other candidate has had a heart attack.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, look, I am -- yeah, no other candidate's doing four or five events a day, running all over this country --
CHUCK TODD:
I hear you. No, you have proven --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We are --
CHUCK TODD:
-- I mean, no doubt, you've proven your mettle here. But voters, you heard voters have been concerned about your age.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I mean, you can start releasing medical records and it never ends. We have released a substantive part -- all of our background. We have doctors who have -- cardiologists who are confirming that I am in good health. I am in good health.
CHUCK TODD:
What changes have you -- did the doctors ask you to make that you've made?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I'm trying to walk a little bit more, but the schedule doesn't allow me. They didn't say -- I'm trying to sleep a little bit better, sometimes that's hard. But I'm feeling great. Thanks.
CHUCK TODD:
My guess is winning will help you sleep a little bit better?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Winning will make me sleep a lot better, and I think we're going to do just that.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Senator Bernie Sanders, Democrat -- the independent Democrat from Vermont. Thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Be safe on the trail, sir --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Good, nice to see you --
CHUCK TODD:
Glad to see you --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
-- thank you.
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