CNN "The Lead With Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) is Interviewed About the Ongoing Impeachment Inquiry

Interview

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Joining me now to discuss is Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii. She serves on the Senate Judiciary and Senate Armed Services Committees.

Senator, thanks for joining me.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Sure.

TAPPER: I want to read this one section of the Taylor testimony. Quote, that was my clear understanding, Taylor says. Security assistance money would not come until the president of Ukraine committed to pursue the investigation. Question, so if they don't do this, they are not going to get that, was your understanding? Taylor, yes, sir. Question, are you aware quid pro quo literally means this for that. Taylor, I am.

Now, Republicans are noting that Taylor never spoke to President Trump about -- or even Rudy Giuliani about this.

How do you respond?

HIRONO: The whistleblower's complaint which first brought to light that the president engaged in this kind of -- what it turns out to be quid pro quo has been collaborated by Taylor, by others. And so, here is the Republicans -- they just can't deal with the substance of what the president did. So they're doing all kinds of things to muddy the waters.

TAPPER: Senator, Republicans continue to argue that no one has testified that president Trump explicitly said they knew to do this in order to get that. And so what is the response?

Actually, take a listen to what Senator Lindsey Graham had to say just yesterday.

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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): But the president of Ukraine says, and he keeps saying, no, I did not feel that I had to do anything to get the aid. How you could have a quid pro quo when the person who is the subject of the pro said it didn't happen?

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TAPPER: So, I mean, what is your response to Senator Graham. He said how do you have a quid pro quo when the person who the subject of the quo said it didn't happen?

HIRONO: Do you really expect the new president of Ukraine, which is so dependent on, in the case of this particular situation, $400 million of U.S. money to fight Russia, do you really expect the president to jeopardize his relationship with the United States by saying, oh, yeah, your president is a crook? I don't think so.

So we look to other credible testimony. That's what we have -- other credible testimony that says that the president shook down the president of another country to get dirt on his political opponents.

TAPPER: You, in the first answer, talked about the whistleblower who is -- whose complaint has largely proven to be accurate according to all the other witnesses. Today, you introduced a resolution to protect the identity of the whistleblower. As you know, there are a number of prominent conservatives, including Donald Trump Jr., trying to out the whistleblower. Republicans are demanding that he or she come forward publicly.

Take a listen to Senator Graham once again.

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GRAHAM: I think it is impossible to go forward without knowing who the whistleblower is. The reason that you have whistleblower statutes is to protect people from reprisal, from being fired. Not give them anonymity in legal proceedings.

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TAPPER: So, what's your response to that?

HIRONO: We have whistleblower protection statues not just so that they don't get fired, but to be retaliated against, to be threatened -- by the way, the president himself has threatened the whistleblower.

So it is to prevent these kind of actions against the whistleblower. And the whole point of the whistleblower statute is to protect the whistleblower through anonymity.

And I'll tell you, what the Republicans are doing and their minions of the president, in going after the whistleblower is just another massive diversion, which, by the way, undercuts the whistleblower statute which required federal employees to come forward to report wrongdoing in federal government, in government since, what, 1789.

And there is a reason that we want our federal employees who are in the best position to see wrongdoing in our federal government, to come forward without being threatened or retaliated against or god knows what all.

So they are undermining the whistleblower statute. And they don't have to because, one, they don't want to acknowledge we don't need this particular whistleblower because his or her complaint has been corroborated. They don't want to go there.

And I'll tell you, I don't know what's next because there's the yap about how this is all secret. Well, guess what, next week it is public and starting with Taylor and some of the other people who already have testified.

The depositions have already been released. It is all out in the open and the House is going to enable the president to participate in their proceedings.

So, they -- that's gone from there, so now they off the whistleblower, and what's next? Are they going to say the president did it, so what?

I call this a so-what defense. It is like the Twinkie defense, it is ridiculous.

TAPPER: Do you --

HIRONO: So I think they're running out of steam to tell you the truth. But to attack the whistleblower, that cannot be. That is why I put in a resolution today to have us acknowledge that just as we require federal employees to come forward to report, we have a responsibility to protect them when they do. And this report, by the way, was deemed credible, and it was deemed urgent.

TAPPER: Senator Rand Paul has called on the media to report the name of the whistleblowers, and I think there are Republicans in the building who are standing in who said they might come forward and name the whistleblower. Is that against the law?

HIRONO: It may not be specifically. I wish there was a law, that is on point, but to me if you're going to require people to come forward, there are several protections and maybe it doesn't protect the whistleblower against irresponsible members of Congress who want to out the whistleblower. Then maybe we need that kind of very specific law.

But one would hope that you don't need such a law to remind us of our responsibility that when someone comes forward, as we expect them to do, and it is credible and it is urgent, that we will look to the substance.

And we have looked to the substance, at least the House has, and the substance has been corroborated.

TAPPER: All right. Senator Mazie Hirono, Democrat from Hawaii -- thank you so much. We always appreciate it.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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