CNN "The Lead With Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview With Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL); Blockbuster Testimony in Impeachment Inquiry

Interview

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Joining me now to discuss, Democratic member of the House Intelligence Committee Congressman Mike Quigley.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

What's the biggest thing you learned today from Ambassador Sondland?

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Look, I think it's a package.

There was a quid pro quo led by the president. Everybody knew it, including the Ukrainians. And, after the fact, the White House and the State Department covered it up.

The ambassador detailed just how many of his own records he wasn't able to have access to. And we learned how important that was, because he was remembering things for the first time because of other people's texts.

And he said that he would have remembered much more if he had been able to see his own texts and information and notes that were passed back and forth.

So, the fact of the matter is, the president and the White House are covering this up. It makes the investigation more difficult. It makes writing an article of impeachment involving obstruction easier.

TAPPER: How exactly does that work, where a U.S. ambassador can't get access to his own texts, e-mails and files, given that he is still a U.S. ambassador?

QUIGLEY: This is -- those working under this administration have to live under this administration's alternative view of the universe, alternative view of reality.

And the fact is, they are breaking the law. I think, in one day, they're obstructing justice more than article three of the Nixon articles of impeachment. That details four. Last week or the week before, we had four people instructed not to appear, despite lawful subpoenas.

We're aware of hundreds of thousands of pages of documents which we're not allowed access to, despite lawful subpoenas. The president always talks in grandiose terms about being the greatest. Well, at this point, there's no greater obstructor of congressional investigations than Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Your Republican colleagues after the hearing came out, Congressman Jordan, Congresswoman Stefanik, and talked about how, on that September 9 phone call between Gordon Sondland and President Trump, President Trump said, when asked what he wants from Ukraine, he said: "Nothing. I want nothing. No quid pro quo."

What's your response to that? The White House and Republican say, that's exculpatory.

QUIGLEY: Yes, he said no quid pro quo, and then he went on to say exactly what was a quid pro quo and detail what he wanted.

We also have to remember the president's own words on the White House call record. That is quid pro quo.

So they can say whatever they want. I mean, I heard through the grapevine they thought this was a draw. Football coaches, when they lose a game by 50 points, don't say, we got our ass kicked. They talk about this in a diminishing fashion.

A team that says that it was a draw probably get their ass kicked. And that's what happened today.

TAPPER: Congressman Turner of Ohio in his questioning got Ambassador Sondland to admit that the president never directly told him to carry out these quid pro quo orders, that the president never explicitly said that the aid depended on the announcement of investigations.

Does that damage your case, given that this is your biggest witness?

QUIGLEY: I think you go back to the biggest witness being the president of the United States, again, on the calls detailing that.

I think that the president's chief of staff said, "Get over it," detailing that there was a quid pro quo. So let's not forget the obvious.

You take all the other witnesses, including Ambassador Sondland, and understand that they're building the case, they are corroborating all that we already know. So, again, I don't want to forget the obvious, the president's own

words, his chief of staff's own words, and all Ambassador Sondland did today, in fact, was build upon them.

TAPPER: Do you know of any Republicans in the House or the Senate, where obviously it's more important if you want President Trump removed from office -- you have the votes in the House -- that have been changed by today's testimony or by any of this testimony?

QUIGLEY: I'd like to think they have personally.

Facts are stubborn things. But what I have witnessed publicly is, the stronger the case, more facts are built up against the president of the United States, the more emboldened my Republican colleagues seem to be.

I think they feel like they have to stiffen to this, despite the fact of the reality.

Do they personally feel otherwise? What we've seen, sadly, is, as with Speaker Ryan, profiles in courage only seem to happen on their side of the aisle when someone is leaving Congress or is about to leave Congress, with the exception of people like Senator McCain.

We need people like Senator McCain today.

TAPPER: Let me just ask you one final question, sir.

And that is, a friend of mine just texted me and says -- and asked, "Do you think today's testimony will matter?"

What do you think?

QUIGLEY: I think it matters, because this is an incremental building of the case.

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The fact of the matter, I don't see the jury as the Senate. I see the jury as the American people, which will hopefully drive the Senate to do the right thing.

And I see it moving the needle. Do I think we're ever going to change the president's base? Absolutely not. I think, as the president said in the campaign, he could shoot somebody, and they would stay with him. It's pretty clear we're seeing an example of that.

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time, as always.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

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