CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY) Discusses Rudy Giuliani Working To Dig Up Dirt On The Bidens While Enriching His Own Pockets

Interview

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GOLODRYGA: Yes. Everyone recalls John Bolton calling him a hand grenade. Jeremy, a lot of developments there. Thank you so much. And OUTFRONT tonight Democratic Congressman Adriano Espaillat. He's on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, great to see you. Thanks so much for coming in.

REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): Thank you, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: A lot of news on this Thanksgiving eve. Let me get your reaction to this story now about Rudy Giuliani allegedly going to Ukraine to dig up dirt on the Bidens while at the same time trying to enrich his own pockets working with the same prosecutors.

[19:05:11]

ESPAILLAT: It has been reported that he was in conversations with the corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor, Lutsenko, and that there was perhaps some money talk as well. The President itself said that Giuliani has other clients besides himself.

Sondland said that the President directed him to Giuliani, the July 25th conversation with Zelensky leased Giuliani. So obviously he's a central figure in this investigation.

GOLODRYGA: And is it plausible what the President says that he didn't direct Giuliani to do anything in Ukraine?

ESPAILLAT: Well, clearly he had confidence in him, he expressed confidence in him to Zelensky, to Sondland as well that he instructed them to go directly to him. So yes, it seems very likely that he had a lot of confidence in him. He may still have a working relationship with him.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And it may have been an easier excuse prior to these two weeks worth of testimony from 12 fact witnesses.

ESPAILLAT: That's correct.

GOLODRYGA: Because the one commonality we saw from all of them was this link to Giuliani and that Gordon Sondland said no one wanted to work with him. They were just told by the President to work with him, so what does that say about the President's excuse now?

ESPAILLAT: Well, it seems like it has all of the characteristics of the Cohen incident and it may be very well that he's throwing him under the bus. But he is very much part of this impeachment process and we will continue to find out what his business was in the Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: I'm glad you brought up Michael Cohen, because it does seem that history is repeating itself. We've seen this story before with how the President who's once very close to his attorney seems to be distancing himself. Let's take a listen to some of this past history here.

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TRUMP: Michael Cohen is a very talented lawyer.

Rudy Giuliani is a great lawyer.

I always like Michael Cohen.

I think Rudy is a great gentleman.

Well, you have to ask Michael Cohen.

Well, you'll have to ask that to Rudy.

What you have to ask that to Rudy.

They got Cohen on totally unrelated to the campaign. I'm not involved.

You know, Rudy has other clients, other than me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So that's quite the evolution. We know ultimately that Michael Cohen did flip on the President. He's now serving time in prison.

ESPAILLAT: Serving time.

GOLODRYGA: You know Rudy Giuliani very well. Rudy Giuliani and this president go way back. How concerned do you think the President is right now that Giuliani could possibly flip on him too?

ESPAILLAT: I won't make any predictions, but I know that as a common practice, Rudy Giuliani was a former U.S. Attorney. When defendants or suspects are facing time in jail very often they're skeptical about their previous positions. But I'm not going to make any predictions and say whether he will or will not flip on the President, but I'm sure that it may have crossed the President's mind.

GOLODRYGA: Let me turn now to the impeachment inquiry and the hearings. We saw over 12 witnesses over 30 hours of testimony, all fact based witnesses. Many of your Democratic colleagues say there's no doubt about it. These were all impeachable offenses. We have yet to see one of your Republican colleagues say the same. Does that alarm you?

ESPAILLAT: Yes, it does. I think that the evidence has been compelling. I feel that many of them should adhere to the constitution and not to political wins. We're all facing reelection this coming year and we should not play this by scoring political points.

But by compelling in our historical commitment to the Constitution and what it stands for and what our duties are as duly elected Members of Congress.

GOLODRYGA: Is there now any debate within the party as to how to proceed forward regarding impeachment or centering the President? We know that one of your fellow congressman sort of walked back, that idea had floated it earlier on. Is that the better route to go down now that we are approaching an election year?

ESPAILLAT: No, I think that Chairman Schiff has done a tremendous job in the investigation process. I think that now that that body of evidence goes to the Judiciary Committee and Chairman Nadler will have that information before him and my colleagues in that committee. Then, we'll make the decision as to whether or not to proceed with articles of impeachment that will begin next, not this coming Tuesday, a week from now and so we'll see what happens then.

But I think we're in the right course. We've heard from all of the witnesses. I think we've been deliberate about this. We haven't really acted off the cuff. We would adhere to what the constitution tells us we should do and we should continue in that route.

GOLODRYGA: In terms of other witnesses, given the judge's ruling earlier in the week with regards to McGahn and his now ability to testify. Do you think it's worth waiting now to see if you do have John Bolton testify, Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pompeo even, will that strengthen your cause for pursuing impeachment even if it means waiting a few more months?

ESPAILLAT: I'm sure the Judiciary Committee will take a look at that. I'm sure also that Pompeo and Bolton will have an opportunity to reconsider their position to come forward in the process as it moves forward.

[19:10:07]

The President and the White House will be able to have counsel there. They'll be able to be part of the process. This is something that they complained about in the past. Well, guess what, right now you have it right in front of you.

GOLODRYGA: What's the likelihood do you think that we'll see (inaudible) ...

ESPAILLAT: Well, I hope they are part of the process. This is a historical process that's guided by the Constitution of the United States of America. I think they should not hide under a rock. They should be fully part of this process. We must hear from them.

GOLODRYGA: Congressman, Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it, yes.

ESPAILLAT: Same to you and to the American people, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

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