CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) Is Interviewed About The Ruling Of Don McGahn To Compel Others Like John Bolton And Mick Mulvaney To Testify

Interview

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BURNETT: All right. Evan Perez, thank you very much. I want to go OUTFRONT now to Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. She's a Member of the Judiciary Committee which, of course, will be drawing up articles of impeachment. I appreciate your time tonight.

So Congresswoman, obviously, you're right now looking at potential articles when it comes to Ukraine. Do you think this ruling about Don McGahn will compel others like John Bolton and Mick Mulvaney to testify imminently?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, I think that the victory was a resoundingly victory for the rule of law and for our Constitution. The judge very clearly says that the President's claim of absolute immunity is absolute absurdity. And I think that at the end of the day, we have an obligation to get the facts and to get witnesses in front of us. In fact, the judge was still reading the full opinion but the judge says in the opinion that blatant disregard of Congress' ability to compel witnesses to come and testify before us is an affront to the mechanisms that the framers put into the Constitution to control abuses of power.

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So I expect that this President will continue to try to obstruct justice, will continue to try to stop people from coming to testify. But I hope that these witnesses, Don McGahn and others, will look at the courage of the people that have been testifying for the last two weeks. These civil servants who came before us and said, "We're going to put country above party." And I hope that they do the same thing.

BURNETT: Now, in the ruling though, the judge also noted, I know you've obviously seen it, Evan was just talking about this part, "The law requires the aide to appear as directed, and assert executive privilege as appropriate."

So there's a lot of assumptions here, but one, let's just assume here that the DOJ appeal is quick. McGahn actually shows up, he comes in to testify. Do you worry he just exerts executive privilege? Sure he's there but all he's saying is nothing to say here, nothing to say here.

JAYAPAL: I do worry about that, because as long as Don McGahn is following the President's orders, I worry that what he will claim is not true executive privilege but a bogus kind of executive privilege. They're going to continue to try to put roadblocks in the way and what it's going to take is for a Don McGahn or John Bolton or others to do what Fiona Hill did, to do what Lieutenant Colonel Vindman did and to actually say we have to make sure we are giving all of the information here, so that Congress can appropriately act as that check of abuses of power.

And that's what we're seeing as constant abuses of power coming from the White House where he is so shaking down Ukraine to get a political personal gain.

BURNETT: Now, when you're talking about Ukraine here, obviously, the McGahn testimony that this was all about was related to the Mueller investigation, not about Ukraine. He was long gone before this President of Ukraine even took office, never mind before these phone calls.

When you're thinking about articles of impeachment, Congresswoman Jayapal, do you think they should solely focused on Ukraine?

JAYAPAL: Well, we're waiting to get all of the information in front of us. But remember that an article of impeachment is not based on a topic area. It's not like you have an article around Ukraine. You have an article around the high crime and misdemeanor. The issue of obstruction of Congress. That was the third article in the Nixon impeachment issues of obstruction of justice, abuse of power. These are the high crimes and misdemeanors that would actually frame

an article. Now, within that you might have a lot of what we just heard in Ukraine as a bulk of that article. But you could also have the same pattern that we were investigating, that Robert Mueller was investigating around obstruction of justice and obstruction of Congress.

So you can pull in other things and certainly the Don McGahn testimony was an important part of the Mueller investigation because he was at the center of so much of that obstruction by the President.

BURNETT: Does the ruling today change anything on your timing. I mean, obviously the Intel Chairman Adam Schiff says his committee's report is going to you, to your committee soon after Thanksgiving. In other words, you guys can draft your articles, pass into the House and this thing is done before Christmas. Does this really change anything on your timing?

JAYAPAL: Well, let's see. I think we obviously want to get this done as quickly as possible, but we are going to follow the facts. And if we feel that we need a little bit more time, we're not going to be bound by some imaginary timeline. We need to make sure we're upholding the Constitution and the rule of law and that we have everything in front of us to be able to do that.

However, we are not going to succumb to a president who continues to try to obstruct justice by telling witnesses not to comply with, as the judge said, centuries old precedent around Congress' ability to compel witnesses to testify.

BURNETT: When all of this comes down to it though, it's going to come down to a vote. Chairman Schiff in his letter today acknowledges what I've heard from several Republicans I've spoken to, which is that Republican minds really haven't been changed in this public testimony.

His quote in the letter, Congresswoman, he says, "It has been our hope all along that our Republican colleagues would seek the facts and give due consideration to the weighty constitutional decision before us, placing country above party. We still hope that will be the case. But we cannot relinquish our constitutional responsibilities because others may choose to do so." And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said this pretty bluntly today.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I can't imagine a scenario under which 67 Members of Senate would remove the President from office in the middle of a presidential election.

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BURNETT: Have you seen any signs that Senator McConnell is wrong?

JAYAPAL: I am just heartsick that Senator McConnell would say that before seeing any evidence presented for a trial. It just shows that Republicans have no ability to actually look at this not from the perspective of defending an indefensible set of actions from the President but from the perspective of an actual jury and a trial.

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Remember, the President has been wooing these Republican senators, offering them money for their re elections. We are better than this, Erin. And I just bring into the room, Elijah Cummings, who would have said that over and over again. We need to be looking at the facts and Republicans need to understand that the damage they are going to do if they refuse to put country over party and over their own personal re- elections is tremendous to the history, the possibility and the greatness of who we are as the United States of America.

BURNETT: Congresswoman Jayapal, thank you very much for your time tonight.

JAYAPAL: Thank you, Erin.

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