CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC)

Interview

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Democrats will accelerate their efforts this week to take the impeachment probe public, after a procedural vote in the House that saw no Republican support.

Joining me now is the number three Democrat in the House, South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn.

Thank you so much for joining me, sir.

I want to start by reading you something that the speaker said back in March. Here's what she said.

She said: "Impeachment is so divisive to the country that, unless there's something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don't think we should go down that path, because it divides the country and it's just not worth it."

So, this week, as you're well aware, the House voted to approve the procedures on impeachment with zero Republican support.

So, my question is, would you move forward with a vote on articles of impeachment if that remains true, that you have no Republican support?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you so much for having me, Dana.

But we would, absolutely. I think that, when we talk about bipartisan support, we are not limiting that to -- to the Congress. I have been watching the polls all over the country. There is rising support within Republican voters in favor of moving forward.

Independents seem to be -- a majority of them seem to be in favor of moving forward, and certainly overwhelmingly Democrats.

So, I think what the speaker was saying, that there needs to be bipartisanship. I don't think she was limiting that to the Congress. She knows the Congress very well, and she knows how our Republican colleagues are prone to vote on these issues within the -- our body. [09:25:05]

BASH: But -- but -- but a vast...

CLYBURN: That is not reflective of the country.

BASH: A vast majority of Republicans...

CLYBURN: I'm sorry?

BASH: A vast majority of Republicans in these polls still very much oppose impeachment.

And wouldn't it be true that, if the polls change that much, that the people who represent them would change along with it?

CLYBURN: Well, that may be true, but what's that level that we have to get to for them to change?

I think that there are calculations here. The impeachment process itself is a political process. And political calculations are being made inside the House, in the Senate and around the country.

So, I do believe that there's a lot of smoke that all of us see. There should be some fire somewhere, and we should find the source of that fire and find the level of it to see what needs to be done to extinguish it.

And that's exactly what we're doing here, if I might use that as a metaphor.

BASH: So, Congressman, some Republicans argue that, while they consider the president's interactions with Ukraine to be inappropriate, they say that they're not impeachable.

The Constitution says, as you know, that the president must be impeached for -- quote -- "treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

Which of those did the president commit?

CLYBURN: Well, I have no idea. And that's why we're doing this investigation.

What I'm saying is, there seems to be an indication that something was going on here? There could be high crimes and misdemeanors taking place. There might even be bribery taking place.

That's why you have an investigation. And that's what we're doing here. And starting this week, we are going to release these transcripts for people to see and read for themselves. We're going to have public hearings starting maybe this week or next.

And we will get to the bottom of this, and then we will be able to make a determination at that time whether or not something happened that was treasonous. I have talked to a lot of people since I have been home who believe

BASH: So I want to talk about polling, since you mentioned polling.

There is new polling from "The New York Times" that show a majority of voters in key swing states that helped elect Donald Trump, like Michigan, like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, they oppose impeaching the president and removing him from office.

I know that you believe moving forward with impeachment is important, or at least the inquiry, regardless of political consequences. But is it possible that this could have a negative impact on your party's prospects in 2020?

CLYBURN: Sure, it could. And that would make this whole process much more political than I would like for it to be.

I believe that this whole process, to me, is about preserving this republic, protecting the democracy that we hold dear. And I do not believe that we ought to allow our political feelings to get in the middle of this.

This country is worth saving. And I do believe that we are in a crisis, much like that Thomas Paine wrote about back in 1776, when he talked about summer soldiers and sunshine patriots.

We are seeing a lot of sunshine patriots who are challenging the authority of real, brave soldiers and real patriots.

For Lieutenant Colonel Vindman to be eviscerated the way this White House is -- a real patriot, he is. And we have got so many sunshine patriots sitting in this White House. We ought to expose them.

And I think the American people ought to have an opportunity to read what Mr. Vindman, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, had to say, and make their own judgments.

BASH: And they will, because, as you said, the transcripts will be released.

You have your finger on the pulse of that very important state where you are right now, South Carolina, in a key way.

And I want to ask you about 2020. A new poll out of Iowa places South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg firmly within the top four contenders. That's not the case where you are in South Carolina, where he remains in low single digits.

A local South Carolina paper obtained a memo from inside the campaign, the Buttigieg campaign, detailing a focus group with black voters, some of whom didn't like that he was living with his husband.

And the report concluded that -- quote -- "Being gay was a barrier for these voters." Is Mayor Buttigieg -- Buttigieg's struggle with black voters in your state of South Carolina because he's gay?

[09:30:04]

CLYBURN: Well, that's a generational issue. I know of a lot of people my age who feel that way.

But I will say this, Dana. My own grandson, who is 20 -- I think is 25 years old. That guy is a big Buttigieg guy. And, of course, he does it because he believes in the guy, not because he's gay.

My grandson tells me...

BASH: But for older African-Americans, it is an issue?

CLYBURN: I'm sorry?

BASH: Are you saying, for older African-Americans, it is an issue?

CLYBURN: Yes, it is. There's no question about that.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you otherwise, because I think everybody knows that's an issue.

But I'm saying it's an issue not the way it used to be. My own grandson is very much for him. He is a paid staffer working on the campaign...

BASH: All right.

CLYBURN: ... working on the campus of HBCUs throughout South Carolina.

And, so, he doesn't care what anybody my age thinks.

BASH: Thank you, Mr. Clyburn. Thank you so much for the -- for your time this morning. Appreciate it.

CLYBURN: Thank you.

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