CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Rep. Lee Zeldin
Interview
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TAPPER: Now, Chairman Schiff just said that's one of the most important moments from the hearing, Sondland saying that there was an explicit quid pro quo.
What's your response?
REP. LEE ZELDIN (R-NY): Well, first of all, President Trump was going to be meeting with President Zelensky on September 1 in Warsaw.
Hurricane Dorian ended up putting off that trip. Vice President Pence went in President Trump's place. The president did meet with President Zelensky in the United States towards the end of September at the United Nations General Assembly.
When Ambassador Sondland was talking with regards to a quid pro quo, linking aid to an investigation, he used words like presume and guess.
What do we know? And this is part of the other 97 percent of the story that Chairman Schiff likes to leave out. The July 25 call, President Zelensky, in his own words, he said there was no demand, no pressure, no quid pro quo. He didn't know about a hold on aid to Ukraine. The readout from Ukraine after that call, there's no reference to a
quid pro quo or a hold on aid. On July 26, President Zelensky meets with Ambassador Sondland and Volker. He makes no reference to a quid pro quo and a hold on aid.
For the weeks that followed, the Ukrainians made no reference to a quid pro quo or a hold on aid. It's not until after they read it in Politico on August 29 that President Zelensky and his team received confirmation that there's a hold on aid.
The aid -- the hold on aid got lifted shortly thereafter. Ukraine didn't have to do anything to get the hold on aid lifted. There's one deposition transcript that still hasn't been released. Mark Sandy came to testify from the Office of Management and Budget to answer a question as to why they were hold on aid to Ukraine, and that we still haven't seen that transcript.
[09:35:04]
TAPPER: That's true.
ZELDIN: I was there for that deposition.
TAPPER: Yes.
ZELDIN: And his answer was very important.
TAPPER: So, Sandy -- I asked about that off camera, and Sandy's transcript, the deposition is going to be released. It's going through the redaction process right now.
But I guess a couple points.
One, it came out in testimony this week that the Ukrainians did know that the aid was on hold before the phone call. I don't know what Zelensky knew or didn't know, but the Ukrainian government did know. That's one.
And, two, we already had Mick Mulvaney come out and say, in front of the cameras, that there was an explicit quid pro quo, that the aid was being held up until -- in part, one of the reasons that it was being held up was because President Trump wanted the Ukrainians to commit to an investigation into Ukraine in 2016.
I mean, Mulvaney has already said that that was one of the reasons that the aid was held up.
ZELDIN: So, first off, on Mark Sandy deposition transcript, that is important for that to come out.
Ambassador Taylor testified with regards to his interactions with President Zelensky and his team. Ambassador Volker testified with regards to his interactions with President Zelensky and his team. And even Yermak from Ukraine, who is the chief under President Zelensky, he has said that it wasn't until after they read it in Politico on August 29. There's a new story that came out over the course of the last couple
days where even Yermak is quoted.
That's why, even on August 27, Ukrainians were having a conversation with Ambassador Taylor, and they didn't yet know that there was a hold on aid.
So what you have from various people who have testified, not just during the depositions, but also during the open hearings, as well as President Zelensky's office himself, they did not get the confirmation until after they read it in Politico on August 29.
TAPPER: OK.
ZELDIN: So, it's important that we get all the facts, including what President Zelensky said himself.
TAPPER: So I hear what you're saying, but let's take a step back, because we know for a fact that President Trump asked Ukrainian President Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, not -- he didn't say Burisma. He said the Bidens.
He said it in the call. He said it when asked about the call in early October in front of the cameras.
Is it OK with you -- forget the quid pro quo part of it for a second. Is it OK with you for an American president to ask a foreign country to investigate his political rivals? Is that acceptable?
ZELDIN: So, let me answer that.
So, there's two different investigations that President Trump asked for. With regards to the July 25 call transcript where he references the Biden, he's asking President Zelensky to work with the attorney general.
That case, the Burisma-Zlochevsky case, is an actual corruption case. It's a corrupt Ukrainian gas company run by a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch, who hired the son of Vice President Biden for over $50,000 a month, without any Ukraine experience, without any energy experience. And, by Hunter Biden's own admission, he was only hired because of his last name.
It just so happened that Vice President Biden was the point man for the Obama administration for Ukraine, even though he was literally the most conflicted person out to be running point.
And we all know about the conversation that Vice President Biden had with Ukraine with regards to the firing of Viktor Shokin. But at the heart of this, Burisma-Zlochevsky is a history of corruption, an actual corruption case.
TAPPER: Right.
ZELDIN: And -- and with regards to the Ukrainians interfering in the 2016 election, there was some testimony this week that was creating it like -- like there was some type of a choice here.
I believe that Russians interfered in the 2016 elections.
TAPPER: Right.
ZELDIN: It's the consensus right of the intelligence community that Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
It's also true, it's indisputable that there were Ukrainians who interfered in the 2016 election.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Well, they certainly -- I don't know about interfered. They voiced opposition to candidate Trump and support for Hillary Clinton. That's absolutely true.
But that's not the same thing as the kind of nefarious intervention that the Russians did involving hacking and the like, right? I mean, they're very different levels.
ZELDIN: So, they're -- absolutely.
But with regards to what Ukrainians actually did in the 2016 election, whether it's Ambassador Chaly and his op-ed, it's the black ledger that helped bring down the campaign chairman for President Trump, you have the origins of the Steele dossier. You have Ivankov's comment. You have Yezniek's (ph) comment. You have multiple people who were connected to...
TAPPER: But these are all investigations that would help President Trump. These are political investigations.
I mean, I could -- I guess the question is...
(CROSSTALK)
ZELDIN: Let me...
TAPPER: Go ahead.
ZELDIN: Yes.
So, I mean, you have -- I mean, you have Kenneth Vogel's reporting from January 2017 in Politico. I'm not sure of anything that you -- you might refute that -- that's in there.
[09:40:05]
You do have Ukrainians who weighed in, who interfered in the 2016 election. There -- there is no equating that with -- with Russia interference.
I believe that foreign interference with the U.S. election is something that, whether it's 2016 or looking forward to future elections, it is an issue that is in U.S. national security interests to get to the bottom of.
But you also point to, for example, about hypocrisy? May 4, 2018, you have three Democratic senators who write a letter to the state prosecutor for Ukraine, asking for Ukraine to help dig up dirt against President Trump, working with special counsel Mueller.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: No, to cooperate with -- to cooperate with a Justice Department investigation.
ZELDIN: So, listen...
TAPPER: Before you go, though, Congressman, I do want to ask you a question in -- due to your status as a combat veteran and a paratrooper. You served in Iraq.
And I do want to -- I'm really curious as to your opinion on this. President Trump made headlines this week when he tweeted that the U.S. Navy should not strip Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher of his status after he posed for a photo with a dead body in Iraq.
Now the secretary of the Navy says that military review of Gallagher's status is going to continue anyway, and that he doesn't consider President Trump's tweets to be a formal order.
Because -- in honor of your service, I really am curious, what would you advise the president to do on this?
ZELDIN: Well, first off, one point, Jake.
One thing that you do that really has been hugely important for those who have fallen in combat and our veterans -- and more Americans need to do it -- every time that someone informs you about someone who is being buried, and they have no family or friends anywhere in America, your call to action, which results in thousands of people showing up from local communities to honor that World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan vet and others is usually to be commended.
The -- the president of the United States is the commander in chief. It is not easy to earn that trident to become a Navy SEAL or an Army Ranger or Green Beret, a Marine, and so on so forth. A lot of people have taken -- it's great pain, great sacrifice to be able to gain that type of experience, that combat experience, as well as those training badges.
And for President Trump, or whether it's a past president or a future president, as the commander in chief, it is their prerogative, if they want to defend somebody like -- like this, who has really gone through a lot to earn those types of awards, if he or she wants to weigh in as commander in chief, that is their prerogative.
And that's something that I certainly have a deference to and I have great respect for anyone who's been through, whether it is basic training, and they're a private right now and they're just starting their -- their military experience, or it's someone who's served for 30 years or has spanned across multiple wars, or might have 4,000 jumps as a paratrooper at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
I do have great respect for people who are able to get to that point where they're a Navy SEAL. And the president, as commander in chief, it's his prerogative to weigh in like he did.
TAPPER: Congressman Lee Zeldin, Republican of New York and a combat veteran, thank you so much for your time. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving, sir.
ZELDIN: Thank you, Jake. You too.
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