CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-TX) Is Interviewed About The Impeachment Probe Hearing
Interview
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COOPER: We've got to take a quick break. But we're going to have more to talk about, including reaction from Congressman Joaquin Castro on what he saw in the testimony he heard. He'll join us.
Also, what the president saying about the testimony that he says exonerates him entirely.
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[20:21:16]
COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) stretch the imagination, this was a consequential day in the impeachment inquiry. One of the central figures implicated the president and members of his cabinet in what he explicitly said was a quid pro quo which oddly enough exactly what Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney openly admitted to several weeks ago, before trying to toss it down the memory hole. Get over it, he said then.
Gordon Sondland was asked about it today.
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REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): Knowing what you know now about was intended with Ukraine, do you agree with Mr. Mulvaney that there's just going to be political influence in foreign policy? Or that we should all get over it and allow a president now or later to investigate a political rival and ask a foreign government to do that?
Do you agree with Mr. Mulvaney?
SONDLAND: I think there's a big difference between political influence and investigating the rival because politics enters into everything relating to foreign policy.
CASTRO: So, but you disagree that the president -- you agree that the president should not be allowed to ask for the investigation of a political rival?
SONDLAND: In the context of what was going on in Ukraine, I believe that the president should not investigate a political rival in return for a quid pro quo.
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COOPER: Joining us now, the man who asked that question, Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro.
Thanks for being with us.
Congressman, what was the biggest takeaway for you from Sondland's testimony today?
CASTRO: Ambassador Sondland basically said that he was taking direction from the president through Rudy Giuliani and that there was a quid pro quo. He also expanded the scope of people that have firsthand knowledge about this corruption. He talked about Secretary Pompeo, Secretary Perry and others who are part of the administration, but so far have refused to come forward and testify the way that Ambassador Sondland did today.
COOPER: A lot of people thought Ambassador Sondland was going to clear up the issue of hearsay since he talked directly to the president. The fact of the matter is he says he never heard the president say that aid to Ukraine was tied to investigations into the Bidens, Burisma or the 2016 election. He just said go talk to Rudy who then delivered that message to him.
Does that Democrats case because that's where Republicans have been focusing on?
CASTRO: Yes, I know that they've been saying that during the day. But remember, the most damning words come from the president himself, when he directly asked the Ukrainian president for a favor, that included investigating the Bidens, and Burisma. So, regardless of what he told Ambassador Sondland or really anybody else, the president's own words are damning to him.
COOPER: Earlier today, you said that while testimony from Secretary Pompeo, Mick Mulvaney, other administration officials would certainly be helpful, it's not necessary before drafting articles of impeachment. Aren't they exact the people who you need to hear from an all of this? I mean, when they have the most firsthand knowledge, most direct knowledge?
CASTRO: I think that it would certainly be help for. It would certainly add a context of our understanding, but I believe that we have significance already. As I mentioned, that call transcript alone, those are the president's own words asking and basically trying to trade a political favor for U.S. government resources, holding up U.S. government resources.
And as we talked about in both in this hearings, that was inappropriate when President Trump tried it, but also, it's important because we cannot in the United States set a precedent where it's OK for a president, Republican or Democrat, to say to a country, to a foreign leader -- look, I'm not going to give you that money that Congress appropriated, unless you help me take out a political rival. That would have extremely dangerous consequences for our country going forward.
COOPER: Laura Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, who testified just -- testimony just ended, she testified tonight that Ukrainians know there was an issue as early as July 25th, which is the same day as President Trump's call with Zelensky.
[20:25:12]
The Republicans have been arguing -- well, which doesn't actually make sense -- that there can't be a quid pro quo. Ukrainians didn't know about it. If that timeline that Ms. Cooper is talking about, that would seem to undercut that argument. CASTRO: Yes, that's right. She basically indicated that in July, the Ukrainians likely unjust spoke with going on. And remember, these are sophisticated diplomats. They understand that there must be some reason why they're not getting that aid.
And then all the other testimony, including Ambassador Sondland's today, has suggested that there were conversations going on about investigations with both American diplomats and the Ukrainians. So, it's very likely that they knew. But even if you put all that aside and assume for a second arguendo that they didn't know, the president by himself making that offer which amounts to either a bribe or extortion, that act itself, whatever the Ukrainians knew, should be a crime.
COOPER: Democrats have abandoned trying to get testimony from former national security adviser John Bolton, Fiona Hill reported to him directly at the White House. She's going to be testifying tomorrow. How much do you expect her to be able to give you everybody a sense of how much Bolton knew in her testimony?
CASTRO: I hope that she can speak to that, and in fact, she was one of the folks that actually had concerns when she heard what was going on. She had concerns about this pay-for-play, basically a shakedown. So, we're looking forward to her testimony.
COOPER: Congressman Castro, appreciate your time. Thank you.
CASTRO: Back now with our political and legal team.
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