Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Hakeem Jeffries on what to expect as impeachment hearings shift to the House Judiciary Committee
Interview
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WALLACE: House Democrats have invited President Trump to send lawyers to participate in hearings starting this week, as the Judiciary Committee decides whether to draft articles of impeachment against him. Joining us now from New York, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, a top Democrat on that committee. And Congressman, welcome back.
JEFFRIES: Good morning, Chris. Great to be with you.
WALLACE: Let's start with what President Trump said about the Democratic impeachment effort at a rally this past week in Florida. Here he is:
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TRUMP: The failed Washington establishment is trying to stop me because I'm fighting for you and because we're winning. It's very simple. [cheers]
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WALLACE: Congressman, wouldn't Democrats have a stronger case against the president if you hadn't been talking about impeaching him almost from the day he took office?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES, D-N.Y.: Well, Chris, I disagree with that premise. And as it relates to this impeachment inquiry that we're in right now, we are here reluctantly. The impeachment of a president is not something that we came to Congress to do. We came to Congress to get things done, to work with this president to drive down the high cost of life-saving prescription drugs. And we hope to be able to pass a bill in the House over the next three weeks that would do that. We've actually indicated that we want to work with President Trump to fix our crumbling bridges, roads, tunnels, airports --
WALLACE: All right.
JEFFRIES: -- and mass transportation system, and to work with him on a re-negotiated NAFTA agreement. We've been clear about that from the very beginning.
WALLACE: But Congressman -- excuse me, Congressman. But I mean, the fact is, almost since he took office -- first it was collusion with the Russians, the Mueller report -- that it couldn't make a case there -- obstruction, which Democrats still believe is the case; now Ukraine. There's been an awful lot about investigating the president, impeaching the president, removing the president, since he took the oath of office.
JEFFRIES: Well, the House is a separate and co-equal branch of government. We don't work for this president or any president. We work for the American people. We do have a constitutional responsibility to serve as a check and balance on a potentially out-of-control executive branch. That is not the Democratic Party playbook. That, in fact, is the James Madison playbook. Madison indicated that the House should serve as a rival to the executive branch because the Founders didn't want a king, they didn't want a dictator, they didn't want a monarch. They wanted a democracy. So, we do have a responsibility to defend our democracy. We're here at this moment right now because the president decided to pressure a foreign government to target an American citizen for political gain, and at the same time withhold $391 million in military aid from a very vulnerable Ukraine, which is an ally to the United States and is still at war with Russian-backed separatists in Crimea. That's why we are at this moment, Chris,
WALLACE: But, Congressman, Democrats have been making that case. You've been making your best case to the public for two months now. You just finished 30 hours of televised hearings, 12 witnesses, and the public apparently isn't buying it at this point. I want to put up a recent poll. Back in early October, people approved of impeaching and removing the president by a margin of 52 percent to 46. Now, after you have presented your evidence, it's 48 percent for and 50 percent against. And, you know, while you could argue that those are well within the margin of error, it's clear that there is none of the bipartisan support that Speaker Pelosi said for months was essential to impeachment.
JEFFRIES: Well, the most recent poll that I saw actually had 50 percent of the American people supporting the impeachment inquiry and the potential removal of the president; 43 opposed. More significantly, I think 70 percent of the American people indicated that the president did something wrong. That said, our job is to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the U.S. Constitution, and present the truth to the American people no matter where it leads, because no one is above the law. That's what we have been doing; that's what we are doing; that's what we're going to continue to do, moving forward.
WALLACE: All right. I want to get to some of the issues I discussed with Congressman Collins. Judiciary Chair Nadler has asked the White House whether they want to participate in this first hearing on Wednesday, this coming Wednesday, with four constitutional scholars. Let me ask you a question first. Who are the witnesses that the Democrats are calling?
JEFFRIES: Well, that's a question that's best directed at Chairman Nadler. The committee hasn't been provided that information yet. I think they're still trying to work out the details. Even my good friend Congressman Collins didn't indicate who the Republican witness will be. So, that remains to be seen. My expectation --
WALLACE: Let me pick up on that, though. How can you ask the White House to participate in a hearing three days from now when they don't even know who the witnesses are going to be? And by your own admission, three of them are going to be for you, and one of them is going to be for President Trump. I mean, how is that a fair process?
JEFFRIES: Well, it's not my understanding that three of them are going to be for me. We're for the truth. I think --
WALLACE: When I say "you," I'm talking about for the impeachment, for --
JEFFRIES: Right.
WALLACE: They're going to side with the Democratic view of impeachment.
JEFFRIES: Well, three witnesses, consistent with the congressional rules, will be called by the majority on the House Judiciary Committee, and then one witness, as Congressman Collins indicated, will be called by the minority. That is --
WALLACE: But why three to one?
JEFFRIES: -- consistent with --
WALLACE: Why not two and two?
JEFFRIES: -- the current House rules. Well, that's something to be discussed, but what's most important is -- let's have a discussion, Chris, about the 12 fact witnesses who have already testified, all of whom were members of the Trump administration. Ambassador Volker, Trump appointee; Ambassador Sondland, Trump appointee; Ambassador Taylor, Trump appointee; Dr. Fiona Hill, Trump appointee; Jennifer Williams, Trump appointee --
WALLACE: All right --
JEFFRIES: -- Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, Trump appointee; all of whom confirm the central allegations here of the wrongdoing engaged in by the president with respect to pressuring a foreign government to target an American citizen. That is the abuse of power that we are concerned about. That act undermined America's national security.
WALLACE: Chairman Nadler has also asked the White House, not just for this hearing this week, but whether or not they want to participate -- they have a deadline of this coming Friday on this -- whether they want to participate in hearings starting a week from Monday, December 9th, to mount a defense of the president. But House Democratic leaders are already talking about -- all right, next week; the week of the 9th -- by the end of that week, that the House would have voted out articles of impeachment, and then the following week, the last week before Christmas, that the full House will vote on whether or not to impeach the president. I guess the question is, how fair is that? It looks like, "All right, a week from Monday, come in, mount your defense, and by the end of the week, we're going to impeach you."
JEFFRIES: Well, no timeline has been set. As a member of the House Democratic leadership and a member of the Judiciary Committee, I can tell you that the only thing that Speaker Pelosi has said, and she said a very solemn, somber, and serious tone, is that we are going to proceed expeditiously. That's because this matter relates to an urgent of -- a matter of urgent concern that was set forth by the inspector general to the Intelligence Committee, another Trump appointee, and we're just going to be guided by the truth. At the same time, we want to give the president every opportunity to present exculpatory information.
WALLACE: So, what -- so, let me just pick you up on that, sir. Are you saying that if the White House decides to fully participate, and they say, "We want to call a half a dozen witnesses; we want to take this on into the -- past the first of the year," which is not that long a period of time from now -- I mean, this has moved at warp speed -- are you saying you personally would be okay with that?
JEFFRIES: Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, we need to be guided by the truth. If they come forward with relevant witnesses -- I think we all may want to hear from John Bolton; we all would like to hear from Mick Mulvaney.
WALLACE: How about --
JEFFRIES: We'd like to hear from --
WALLACE: How about --
JEFFRIES: -- the Secretary of State.
WALLACE: -- Joe Biden and Hunter Biden? Would you like to hear from them?
JEFFRIES: Well, I think that if they're relevant, but the reality is, Chris, if you look at the testimony from Ambassador Taylor, for instance, what he said -- and this is a West Point graduate; this is someone who was a Vietnam War hero and a Reagan administration appointee subsequently appointed by Trump. He said that there was no legitimate national security reason for withholding the aid, no legitimate public policy reason, no legitimate substantive reason. If the president would like to come forward and present an actual witness who can provide some exculpatory information as to why the aid was withheld, we all would welcome that.
WALLACE: Okay, got a couple of minutes left. While the Judiciary Committee -- at the same hour that you're holding your hearing this Wednesday, President Trump will be overseas in London at the NATO summit representing this country. Do you have any problems with that?
JEFFRIES: Well, again, we have a constitutional responsibility to serve as a check and balance. That means that we do need to investigate evidence of wrongdoing, much of which is hiding in plain sight. We have the July 25th phone call that the president himself made and pressured the Ukrainian government with the words "Do us a favor, though," at the same time withholding the $391 million without justification. But we also want to continue to work with this administration. You know, the American people pay five or six times the amount as other countries who are developed for the same drug, often manufactured in the same location. That's wrong. The president has indicated that --
WALLACE: Well, no, but I --
JEFFRIES: -- we should give the federal government the power to negotiate.
WALLACE: I was just asking whether --
JEFFRIES: We want to work with him on that.
WALLACE: -- you had a problem with the juxtaposition. You're discussing whether to impeach the president while he's representing the country overseas.
JEFFRIES: Well, we're giving the president every opportunity to participate in the impeachment inquiry in a very fair and balanced way.
WALLACE: We like that phrase, "fair and balanced," here at Fox. Congressman Jeffries, one final question for you. As you mentioned, you're a member of the House Democratic leadership. At this point, do you know for certain of a single Republican who is going to vote to impeach this president?
JEFFRIES: No, we haven't had that conversation, but ultimately every single member of the House of Representatives is going to have to decide whether they want to put principle over party, whether they want to put the Constitution ahead of corruption. This is about abuse of power. This is about national security. This is about the undermining of the integrity of our elections. This is about betrayal, and this is about the United States Constitution. We'll see what people decide to do moving forward.
WALLACE: Congressman Jeffries, thank you. Thanks for your time. Always good to talk with you, sir.
JEFFRIES: Thank you, Chris.
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