CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: "Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono"

Interview

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BLITZER: Jessica Schneider, thank you.

Joining us now, Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono. She serves on the Judiciary and Armed Services committees.

So, Senator, thanks so much for coming in.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Good evening.

BLITZER: We got a lot to discuss.

How concerned are you by the allegations that have been laid out in this whistle-blower complaint?

HIRONO: Very concerned.

How could we not be, when you have a president who apparently is shaking down -- as Speaker Pelosi said, shaking down the leader of a foreign country for his own personal political gains, using taxpayer money as leverage? How is that OK?

So I feel a sense of urgency going forward.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Do you believe this rises to an impeachable offense?

HIRONO: I would say so, yes, because it is a felony to accept help from a foreign country.

And then for the president, literally, as we say, shaking down a foreign leader for his own political ends, using his power, that is called abuse of power.

BLITZER: So, if the House of Representatives goes ahead and votes by a simple majority, 218 votes, to impeach the president, and then it goes to the Senate, where you guys will have a full-scale trial, the chief justice will preside, you will have to vote on whether or not to remove him to convict, you would vote to convict?

HIRONO: Well, let's see what the House comes up with in terms of their articles of impeachment.

And I will certainly do my job, as a senator, listening to their -- what they're going to argue.

BLITZER: Do you believe the administration is ready to cooperate fully with the House and Senate in releasing documents, making witnesses available?

HIRONO: No. So, all along, the White House has stonewalled the various House

committees. And why should he do anything different? So, as mentioned, this kind of stonewalling can be part of the articles of impeachment.

BLITZER: Rudy Giuliani, the president's private attorney, says he would need to consult with President Trump before he agrees to testify before Congress, citing attorney-client privilege.

What do you think, first of all, about that argument? You're a member of the Judiciary Committee.

HIRONO: There is no attorney-client privilege if the conversation is in furtherance of a crime. And that's what's being alleged. So I would say that he is not on firm ground.

BLITZER: So, if he does testify, you think you will get useful information from him?

HIRONO: If he tells the truth.

BLITZER: Like, what specific -- what questions? Give us one or two examples of the type of questions you would ask Giuliani.

HIRONO: What was he doing in all the times that he went to the Ukraine?

Was it -- and I assume at the behest of the president, because his name is mentioned in the phone call that the president had with the president of Ukraine, not to mention that at least three times Giuliani's name is heard at the same time at the same time as Attorney General Barr.

And so what was he doing, and at whose behest?

BLITZER: Well, it was clear he was trying to get dirt on Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden, Democrats, Hillary Clinton. He was trying to collect as much negative information as he possibly could.

(CROSSTALK)

HIRONO: And I assume that's at the president's behest. But he should testify as to that. And as to the State Department's involvement in all of that, we would like to know what was going on there.

So, there's a lot more to be uncovered. And that's why the House committees have to go forward.

I think that the -- for us to contemplate that we have a president who actually would shake down the leader of another country for his own personal political gain using our money, taxpayer money, as leverage, is just totally beyond the pale.

BLITZER: You're a member of the Judiciary Committee. What questions do you have for the attorney general, Bill Barr, and his involvement or lack of involvement in all of this? HIRONO: He seems to have been involved during the -- before he even

found out about what was going on.

And then, of course, when the whole matter was brought to him by the DNI, director of national intelligence, what is to be expected? Do you think that his Office of Legal Counsel will say, yes, Mr. DNI, you should disclose the whistle-blower's report to the appropriate committees?

Did you think that that was going to happen? No, it did not happen. So, both before, during, and after, I think Bill Barr has a lot to answer for.

BLITZER: You're a member of the Armed Services Committee. The president, he froze U.S. military assistance, almost $400 million in military assistance, to Ukraine. Then he has this phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine.

And, first of all, do you see any legitimate reason why the president would freeze that congressionally authorized and appropriated funds for Ukraine?

HIRONO: No.

That is money that is supposed to go to the Ukraine to help them fight Russia. And for the president to hold it back, for whatever reasons -- I don't even know what lame excuse he came up with -- but the timing of it is such that, a few days later, or contemporaneous to that, he has this chat with the Ukrainian president.

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And the president says, the Ukrainian president says, I need to buy more missiles, and Trump says, I need some favors, though.

BLITZER: He says, can you do me a favor?

HIRONO: Can you do me a favor, though.

BLITZER: Yes.

HIRONO: Though.

BLITZER: The word though was added after that.

HIRONO: Yes, takes on a lot of meaning here.

BLITZER: All right, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, clearly now wants this accelerated.

HIRONO: Yes.

BLITZER: But she wants the impeachment investigation to focus strictly on the Ukraine and not on the allegations of obstruction of justice, the Mueller report and all the other issues. Is she right?

HIRONO: I don't second-guess what the speaker is doing. She knows what she's doing.

And I think we feel a sense of urgency to go forward. And still, for myself, sure, I remember the Mueller report and the allegations of obstruction of justice.

But even after the Mueller report came out, and all of the -- whoa, excuse me -- the efforts by the House committees to get information, it's being stonewalled. So he continues to obstruct justice.

BLITZER: Very quickly, before I let you go, I want your -- I know you're very upset that the Trump administration has now decided to limit the number of refugees coming into the United States during the next year.

What, it's only 18,000. That's a -- that's a very low number.

HIRONO: Yes.

BLITZER: What, if anything, can you do about that?

HIRONO: Every time we try to tell the president, don't do that, I mean, we try to limit what he can do in terms of going after immigrants, he comes up with something else.

So it's a continuing battle. I would have to think about what else we can do. There's appropriation language perhaps that we can put in. But since he doesn't think that anything that we do applies to him, it's a continuing battle with him.

But there's no question that this administration is out to get immigrants. And he wants to limit as many of them coming here as possible. And he wants to make it much harder for those with green cards to stay here, so at both ends.

He wants to prevent people from coming to our country and he wants to prevent people from staying in our country.

BLITZER: His argument is that the U.S. is spending a lot of money on all the undocumented, the illegal immigrants coming into the United States, that's he got to hold back for appropriations reasons.

HIRONO: Well, he said there's no more room.

BLITZER: Well, that's another issue as well.

HIRONO: Yes.

BLITZER: Senator Hirono, thanks so much for coming in.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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