CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Pramila Jayapal"
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
BLITZER: Alex Marquardt reporting for us, thank you.
Joining us now, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, a Democrat who serves on the House Judiciary Committee. She's here in THE SITUATION ROOM with me.
Thanks so much, Congresswoman, for coming in.
So, what do you make of the breaking news right now? Potentially, unless there's an appeal, and it could go all the way up to the Supreme Court, you might be getting all of this redacted grand jury material from the Mueller investigation.
How significant could that be?
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): It's huge. I haven't had a chance to read the whole opinion, but I will tell you,
on page two, there's a really important line there, and it is, the DOJ is wrong.
And what the judge is talking about in that one sentence is that the DOJ was claiming that we did not have the right to call this an impeachment investigation, that it was not an impeachment investigation because there hadn't been a full vote of the House, and, therefore, we could not use the powers of impeachment to compel this evidence to come to us.
The judge said the DOJ is wrong. We have every right to do this. We are in the midst of an impeachment investigation. And we are going to be able to get all of this information.
I think that deals a huge blow to Trump and his administration, but a huge victory for the American people to take on the abuse of power that we are seeing.
[18:10:00]
BLITZER: Take a look at this. We got some pages from the nearly 450- page Mueller report.
You see all those redactions, the blacked-out portions. Specifically, what might you learn? What specific information might you learn from this?
JAYAPAL: Well, one of the things that were most important to us is to see the witness testimony that underlies the report.
So it's not only those redactions that are in the report, but what did the witnesses say? And can we get the specific testimony that they have -- that they gave to Robert Mueller?
Because that gives us some of the texture, some of the details that might even be related to some of the things we're finding out now. I mean, I think that there is a lot of information here that will come out. We don't know everything we're going to find, Wolf, but it is essential for us to have this to get to the truth.
And, again, it just piles on to the narrative right now that is unfolding in front of us. The president is betraying our Constitution, betraying our values, and, unfortunately, putting our national security at deep risk.
BLITZER: The Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested she wants the impeachment inquiry to be narrowly focused on Ukraine right now.
But if you get all of these other material, are you prepared to open it up and bring up the entire Russia investigation, the Mueller probe?
JAYAPAL: Well, you know, the way impeachment articles get crafted is, it's not around a title like Ukraine. It's around the high crime and misdemeanor. And so that would be like obstruction of Congress, which was article
three in Nixon impeachment. That would be abuse of power. And Ukraine would be a critical focus, because it is right in front of us. It's unfolding right in front of us. It's easy to understand.
But all of these other things, including the things that -- some of the things that were in the Mueller report, the Emoluments Clause, are part and parcel of a pattern of an abuse of power, a pattern of obstruction.
And so I think you might see some of those things coming into any articles that might be written.
BLITZER: If John Bolton, the fired former national security adviser -- his lawyers are now talking to House investigators. If he agrees to testify, how significant could that be?
JAYAPAL: It's also significant.
But each of those things, Wolf, is like adding color to a painting. We already have the key witness in this case, testified very early to the public. And that was the president of the United States, when he admitted to asking a foreign ally to dig up dirt on an opponent and interfere in our election, and, by the way, held up congressionally approved aid to that country that was desperately needed.
So we're just adding corroboration. Each testimony is more and more evidence, and some of it more damning. But the most damning is the president's own behavior in this abuse of power.
BLITZER: The Justice Department has now decided that its review of the entire Russia investigation should now be seen as a criminal probe, a criminal investigation.
Do you believe that the Department of Justice has a reasonable explanation for this?
JAYAPAL: I think this is deeply troubling. It looks like now the Justice Department is part of the president's political operation to protect the president and not to actually speak on behalf of the American people.
And that is a real problem. This is, again, a pattern of the president using the offices that belong to the American people for his political gain. And if the Justice Department is part of that, that raises enormous, enormous questions.
BLITZER: If it is a criminal investigation, it allows John Durham, who is the U.S. attorney in Connecticut who's in charge now of reviewing everything that happened, the FISA applications and all of that -- it allows subpoena power, grand jury power.
He's highly respected, John Durham, by Democrats and Republicans. Do you have confidence in him?
JAYAPAL: Well, I think that we have to see what happens here, but it makes me very suspicious when Bill Barr, the attorney general, is off in Italy trying to find information that essentially allows them to change the focus from this very big betrayal that the president has committed against the American people and against our national security.
So we will see what emerges with that. But we continue to see Bill Barr and the Justice Department speaking as if he represents the president. And you know, Wolf, he represents the American people. But that certainly doesn't seem to be the way the Justice Department is operating.
BLITZER: On a different subject, the Trump Organization is now considering the notion of selling the Trump International Hotel here in Washington, right on Pennsylvania Avenue, down the street from the White House, because the president has come under and his family has come under all sorts of fire for ethics concerns.
What's your reaction to that?
JAYAPAL: We look at the Trump Hotel in D.C. and we call it the Washington emolument.
This is the place where foreign governments can come, the Trump Organization can charge more for a room than they might charge anybody else. It's a way of channeling money to the president. And that is absolutely against what our founders said in the Constitution, when they were so worried about just even small gifts to the president that might allow a foreign power to abuse that relationship and turn a president towards their interests, instead of the American people.
[18:15:05]
So, it's a big problem. They know it, I think. They know that this investigation is closing in on those emoluments violations. And I think that's why they're trying to suddenly get rid of it.
BLITZER: We will see what happens on that front.
Thanks so much, Congresswoman Jayapal. Thanks for coming in.
JAYAPAL: Thank you so much, Wolf.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source