CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. John Garamendi"
Interview
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FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
Right now, a big league celebration underway in the nation's capital. The World Series champion Washington Nationals are making their way through D.C. in a ticker-tape parade. Thousands of fans lining the National Mall to get a glimpse of the team and their hard-fought trophy. This was the first World Series win for the series in 95 years. The team is hosting a big rally coming up in the next hour. You see the folks really excited about it in their Nationals gear.
It's also a major day on the campaign trail. Several of the top Democratic contenders for president stumping at a fish fry in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, about to take place right there. The event is part of a critical weekend for candidates jockeying for position in the polls, polls that have grown increasingly tighter in recent weeks.
We begin with another event that's consuming Washington. I'm talking of course about the impeachment inquiry into President Trump. House Democrats have a full slate of officials, some currently in the White House, others who left recently. And they want to speak with all of these potential witnesses next week.
Whether they get the chance, the Democrats, though, is another story. One of the officials, Energy Secretary Rick Perry, who has met with Ukraine's president at least three times while in office, refusing to testify behind closed doors without an attorney. But a spokesperson says Perry would consider a public hearing.
And then there's the ongoing fallout from the White House Ukraine expert Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, who was so concerned at the time about what he heard on President Trump's call with his Ukrainian counterpart, that he told the top lawyer on the National Security Council that it was very disturbing. And in testimony to Congress, Vindman says that lawyer, John Eisenberg, told him in response to keep those concerns to himself. Eisenberg, who helped move a transcript of that call to a secure server, has now been subpoenaed to appear on Monday.
Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California joining me right now. Congressman, good to see you.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, (D-CA): Thank you.
WHITFIELD: So a Perry spokesperson says he would consider giving a deposition in public. Is that request reasonable? And can he make that request as Energy Secretary?
GARAMENDI: I think he is going to have to first appear in private with the deposition, that is to gather information, just like other folks have come forward to the three committees that have been doing the depositions. And then I'm sure he'll have an opportunity to testify in public. But step by step --
WHITFIELD: But can he set the conditions?
GARAMENDI: No. He should not be able to set the conditions. He will undoubtedly, at the moment, have a voluntary request. But if he stays where he is, he's going to get a subpoena.
WHITFIELD: So you're saying if he refuses to appear voluntarily for this deposition, he will get a subpoena. If he defies the subpoena, then what? Because there are others who have ignored the subpoenas without consequence?
GARAMENDI: I suspect -- well, that's true. However, there will be an opportunity later. What we've been able to do is to really get around those people that have defied the subpoena. Other people have come forward. They're patriots, they're people that understand the process, the legitimate right and obligation of the House of Representatives to gather information now with a formal impeachment inquiry, full vote of the House of Representatives having taken place. So there's no more ducking and weaving here. You're going to have to come forward.
And if you don't there will be consequences down the road. Perry is probably concerned that he's going to get caught up in a lie, and that would be very, very difficult, and quite possibly end up in prosecution.
WHITFIELD: And so, as I say, he made a visit to Ukraine three times, at least that's what publicly been revealed. So seven freshman Democrats from California flipped their districts from red to blue in the midterms, and they now back impeachment. But clearly that decision could make their seats vulnerable next year. And then there's this new "Washington Post"/ABC News poll showing that independents narrowly oppose impeachment, 49 percent compared to 47 percent who support it. So do you have to be mindful of that as you proceed in the impeachment process?
[14:05:01] GARAMENDI: Those seven Democrats are doing their obligation. They're carrying out their oath of office. They're doing what they should do courageously in the face of possible retribution at the polls in November. However, the poll that you just cited about independents as well as Democrats and Republicans, is really preliminary and way ahead of the public hearings that will soon take place.
As the public hears these individuals from the White House and other, Taylor, former ambassador, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, all those people testifying publicly, I think you're going to find the public saying, oh, my God, there really was an obstruction of justice, in the case of Mueller, there really was an effort by the president to extort Ukraine to illegally involve itself in a presidential election.
WHITFIELD: So you feel like it will be a lot more revealing. The flipside to that is, by now having this other phase, public hearings, it certainly elongates the process. And that also means that public opinion, people could be fatigued by the process, turn away, and here that public forum is undermined just simply by the fact that people feel like it's too much. Do you worry about losing public support that way?
GARAMENDI: No, I don't. I think the testimony that will be heard in those public meetings, which will be coming forward in a few weeks, will be compelling, that the public will say, yes, yes indeed, the president did engage in an illegal, and an effort to help himself in the upcoming election, and that it was corrupt, and that he did not pay attention to his oath of office. All of those things will be out there in the public for everybody to see.
Keep in mind that at the beginning of the Nixon impeachment process, the public was even -- was very, very strongly, Democrats and Republicans alike, opposed to impeachment. But then when the Senate did its public hearings and the evidence came forward, it all shifted.
And I think that's what will happen here. Even though presently a very slim majority of the American public does want to proceed with the impeachment hearings, at the end of the day we'll see what takes place. But right now, there's a very, very strong case that the president has abused his authority, his power, for his own personal benefit, and that clearly corruption did take place, and that he did ignore his oath of office.
WHITFIELD: So you saw that "Washington Post" article today which talks about how some Republican senators, part of the strategy is go ahead and acknowledge that there may have been a this-for-that, as it pertains to Ukraine and the president's motives here. But then, last night with our Chris Cuomo, a lawmaker, Randy Weber, took a different approach, which might be signposting how Republicans are going to be handling this. It just seems to be a strategy of defend and deflect. Listen to that soundbite if we have it.
GARAMENDI: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Ivanka Trump, representing the U.S. government, went to China and got a bunch of patents right when she was meeting with President Xi, and that's OK. So isn't it OK?
REP. RANDY WEBER, (R-TX): Chris, just another example of anti- Trumpism you just quoted.
CUOMO: How is that OK?
WEBER: The president's family has been involved in business around the world for a long time.
CUOMO: So you can keep doing it while you work in the U.S. government?
WEBER: So they can make business. They can do business, they can make money while they're working for the U.S. government.
CUOMO: Really?
WEBER: They're not selling -- absolutely they can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: So the point there is that a real parallel was being made, criticism that Hunter Biden shouldn't dare, conflict of interest, be making money while his dad was vice president, take the turn there now that it's OK for the president, his family, to continue to make money. So if that is revealing what the Republican strategy will be, how does that make your job either more complicated or easier?
GARAMENDI: Well, frankly, much, much easier. Mr. Weber, a very good fellow but is absolutely wrong. He ought to read the Constitution. Article One of the Constitution is quite clear about any public official, the president, myself, Ivanka Trump, who is actually a public official working in the White House, cannot use their position to receive anything of value from a foreign government. And surely those rights, those patents, those are --
[14:10:00]
WHITFIELD: She's received patents, involving China while she's had that job.
GARAMENDI: Absolutely. Those are valuable things from the government, from the Chinese government to her. And surely the president, the Trump hotel is an outstanding example of the way in which he has used his office as president to enrich himself from foreign governments. That may very well be one of the impeachment charges that will go forward.
But in the case of Ukraine, you have another situation which the president is abusing his power as president, withholding critical military aid that Ukraine needs to fight off Russia. What for? To advance his political circumstances in the upcoming election by having the Ukraine government investigate the Bidens. There are two or three different specific issues -- abuse of power to enrich himself politically, as well as extortion, and inviting a foreign government to illegally engage in his election campaign. That just goes on and on and on. So Mr. Weber, thanks for pointing out, there is a serious problem here.
WHITFIELD: Congressman John Garamendi, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
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