CNN "Erin Burnett Out Front" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Jerry Nadler"
Interview
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And OUTFRONT, as I said, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Jerry Nadler.
Chairman, thanks so much. Good to see you in person. So --
REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): Good to be here.
BURNETT: Look, I know that you are doing, what you've called a full blown impeachment investigation, that you have been doing that. Obviously, you know we've spoken with someone familiar with your thinking and we asked, do you support the impeachment inquiry? The source told CNN, it's as clear as day.
Is it?
NADLER: Well, I think it's important not to get hung up on semantics. The fact is we are doing an investigation. We are investigating the facts. We're investigating the evidence.
We are going into court to get witnesses, all with a view toward deciding and recommending to the House whether to impeach the president. We have the power to vote articles of impeachment. And we are investigating now to get the evidence to decide whether to do so.
BURNETT: So, are you waiting on anything from the House speaker? Because obviously, publicly, she has --
NADLER: No, we are not.
BURNETT: You're not waiting for her (ph)?
(CROSSTALK)
NADLER: We are not waiting from the House speaker. The House speaker has been very cooperative. We could not have filed the lawsuit without her. The House counsel filed the lawsuits, the House counsel who pushed the speaker.
BURNETT: She's not publicly saying it, but she's -- you're saying but she is there?
NADLER: She is cooperating with the committee's investigation. The committee has gone into court to force Don McGahn to testify. Don McGahn is the key fact witness who is -- who --
BURNETT: Mentioned 500 times in the Mueller report.
NADLER: Mentioned 500 times in the Mueller report. But he testified to Mueller that he witnessed at least 10 instances of criminal obstruction of justice by the president. And so, he is now the -- the Mueller report is a summary of evidence. We want to get the direct evidence. We want his testimony as to those criminal obstructions of justice by the president.
We also want testimony from other people about other violations of law, about the -- you know, the Mueller -- the hearing that we had gave the lie to three things that the president and the attorney general were saying. They were saying that the Mueller report exonerated the president, that it showed no collusion, that it proves no collusion and no obstruction.
To the contrary, all of those three statements are false. The report did not exonerate the president. The report shows considerable evidence of collusion -- that the --
BURNETT: Right. It didn't establish to a criminal level of conspiracy as opposed to evidence of collusion.
NADLER: Conspiracy but it did more than that.
BURNETT: Yes.
NADLER: It showed that the Russian government tried to subvert the election to help Trump. That the Trump campaign knew about it --
BURNETT: And welcomed it.
NADLER: -- and welcomed it and cooperated in many ways with it and that the president then lied -- and others then lied to investigators.
BURNETT: So, what a lot of people say, OK, you say let's not get wrapped up inwards. But words can matter when they -- when they apply to what information you can get and how the American people see it, right?
So I'm trying to understand, because a lot of Democrats -- they don't want to be forced to vote for an impeachment inquiry. But they presumably would be willing to vote for impeachment itself if you presented them with the evidence.
NADLER: Well, there's no -- there is no such thing. The committee has initiated an investigation into the question -- into the various malfeasances by the --
BURNETT: So, you're saying this is exactly the same as what we call formal impeachment proceedings by another name?
NADLER: This is formal impeachment proceedings. We are investigating all the evidence. We're gathering the evidence and we will at the conclusion of this, hopefully, by the end of the year, vote to -- vote articles of impeachment to the House floor or we won't. That's a decision that we'll have to make.
But that -- that's exactly the process we're in right now.
BURNETT: All right. So when you says it formal impeachment proceedings, have you started drafting or preparing any articles of impeachment should you need them?
NADLER: There are articles of impeachment that were introduced a number of months ago and were referred to the committee. And as the investigation proceeds, we may want to draft our own articles of impeachment that may more closely fit the evidence. We'll see.
BURNETT: So, OK, when you talk about Don McGahn and others, and others things you want. You want all the backup data, you want to be able to talk to whomever you want. But when people hear impeachment inquiry, and they think ala Watergate. When am I going to see this parade of people, when am I going to see them testify, like we saw Michael Cohen, like we saw Bob Mueller?
(CROSSTALK) NADLER: Hopefully, we will see witnesses in the committee in September and October, witnesses whom we don't have to use court orders to get there.
[19:35:09] Hopefully, we'll get court orders for people like McGahn and Hope Hicks and various other people. And if we get McGahn we'll get the others because the legal arguments are the same.
BURNETT: That's what you're fighting for, though. So, that's the --
(CROSSTALK)
NADLER: But the legal arguments -- but the legal arguments are the same.
BURNETT: But you think -- are there some people who are of true importance who you're going to get in September and October? Are there any examples you give us --
(CROSSTALK)
NADLER: I'm not going to give any examples now, but I think there will be witnesses. And remember, we are not limited to the Mueller report.
BURNETT: Yes.
NADLER: To evidence of collusion with the Russians and to obstruction of justice. Those are two key elements obviously, but there is the question of unconstitutional and illegal violations of the Emoluments Clause, that is to say enrichment to the president and whether there is any evidence that he did that. You know, getting money from foreign powers --
BURNETT: There's certainly a lot of questions about that.
NADLER: There's certainly a lot of questions about that. There are other -- the hush money in the campaign --
BURNETT: So you are currently looking at those things as well right now?
NADLER: Yes, Michael Cohen was sent to jail for illegal campaign finance use of hush money. And the evidence was the president instructed him to do that. It was for the president's benefit. That would certainly be something we are looking.
BURNETT: So, you're looking at things like quid pro quos for why he is -- has a U.S. policy adjusted (ph) on, say, Saudi Arabia, and you're looking at money flows, you're looking at all things like that?
NADLER: Conceivably, conceivably, yes.
BURNETT: So I want ask you to about something else. I don't know if you saw this. Obviously, you saw the president went to El Paso and Dayton. And when he was in El Paso, he went to a hospital, as you know. When he was in there, there was a cell phone video of a conversation that he had.
And so, he is there, eight people there recovering. Obviously many people died. He was praising the medical staff for response. And then he said this. This is the moment captured on video. Here he is.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was here three months ago we made a speech and we had -- what was the name of the arena? That place was --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The impact.
TRUMP: Right? That was some crowd.
UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE: Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
TRUMP: -- twice the number outside.
Then you had the crazy Beto. Beto had like 400 people in a parking lot. They said his crowd was wonderful.
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BURNETT: What do you say to that? That's what he said in the hospital.
NADLER: Well, it shows the president's incredible self-absorption, when he should have been thinking about and talking about the people who were murdered, murdered in El Paso, the fact that the manifesto of the murderer tracked his language and that he may have bear some responsibility for getting people to think that the country is under invasion and they have to protect it by murdering people.
And then the least that he is in hospital where people are recovering from serious injuries and all he was concerned about is thinking about his crowd compared to Beto O'Rourke's crowd. Just a self-absorbed, selfish individual. And period (ph) -- and the fact also is, we -- he is part of the legislative process, the president is.
BURNETT: Yes.
NADLER: The House of Representatives reported a very serious legislation to prevent gun violence. We reported legislation -- our committee reported it to the House. The House voted.
BURNETT: Yes.
NADLER: Adopted a bill for universal the background checks before people can get guns to plug some loopholes in that. And it's been over 160 days. Mitch McConnell refuses to take it up in the Senate.
The president, although he said he was in favor of background checks legislation, has refused to urge Mitch McConnell or the Republicans to take it up. When are they going to start protecting the American people? BURNETT: Chairman Nadler, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
NADLER: You're welcome.
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