CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Tulsi Gabbard"
Interview
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BALDWIN: All right. So as of right now you see the big number on your screen, 160. CNN has counted 160 House Democrats who are in favor of starting the impeachment process against President Trump. And that number is growing and growing fast in the leadup to this meeting minutes from now led by, of course, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. And with me now Democratic Presidential candidate, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, she represents Hawaii's second district. So Congresswoman, a
pleasure.
REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Good to see you.
BALDWIN: Thank you for coming by. So let's get straight to the news. So we're hearing that Speaker Pelosi is announcing a formal impeachment hearing in the coming hours. We know Trump plans to release this full transcript, he says unredacted transcript with his call with the Ukrainian President. Where do you stand on impeachment right this very moment?
GABBARD: Look, my position remains the same. I think that impeachment would be terribly divisive for our already very divided country.
BALDWIN: Even an impeachment inquiry, looking into it?
GABBARD: I think Congress needs to exercise oversight over the information that's been leaked. I think it's important that this transcript is released to Congress so that Congress can do its job. But I think the question of impeachment really would further tear apart an already divided country. I think it's important that Donald Trump is defeated. I believe I can defeat him in 2020. But it's the voters who need to make that choice unequivocally.
BALDWIN: But what do you make of this -- I talked to one of them, seven freshmen Democrats who have come out with national security backgrounds. You know about that as a veteran. They're pointing to national security as in this is a national security concern for the reasoning to now shift in the last 24 hours for an impeachment inquiry. Tell me why they're wrong.
GABBARD: I think that these issues that are being raised are deeply concerning. I think it's important that we not deal in hypotheticals and actually look at this transcript. I think it's important that it is released and make decisions based on the facts. But I think also look at the pragmatic next steps of what will follow. And my concern is for our country. United we stand, divided we fall. It's important that Donald Trump is voted out of office by the American people. And I feel very strongly about that.
BALDWIN: But what if when they look at the transcript there is no mention of money, right? The allegations that Trump withheld all these millions of dollars in exchange for, you know, for personal gain, if there is no quid pro quo in the transcript?
GABBARD: Well, that's again, that's why I think it's important that we actually look at --
BALDWIN: But once they do and it doesn't exist?
GABBARD: Well, this is the problem. If the motivation is political and the evidence is not there for those who are calling for impeachment to continue to pursue that, that just proves how divisive this will be. Because then whether it's Donald Trump's supporters or Republicans, moderates, independents, they will say, OK, gosh guys, come on, this is politics as usual. You couldn't beat Trump in 2016. Now you're trying to do it through Congress. This is why it's so important the American people make this decision that we as Democratic candidates for president make our case and defeat Donald Trump through the ballot box.
If some of my colleagues are running for President don't think they can do that, then maybe they shouldn't be running. But this is the challenge and opportunity that we have before us.
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BALDWIN: But what about the President just even wanting dirt, information, Kompromat on Joe Biden, his opponent? How is that not a violation of the Constitution?
GABBARD: That Trump has done and continues to do so many things that are deeply concerning for us and the country.
BALDWIN: So shouldn't that be looked into?
GABBARD: And further proof, Congress can and should look into it. And it further proves that Donald Trump makes decisions based on what's good for him and his own political power and his own political interests rather than thinking about what's in the best interests of the people. And I give credit to the American people to be able to see that and to say, hey look, no, we don't need this guy as President anymore. We need to have somebody in the White House who is going to put the interests of the American people and our country first. That's why I'm running.
BALDWIN: But if the President continues to break the law and continues to go unchecked by Congress, is that not a dereliction of duty?
GABBARD: Congress can and should continue to exercise its oversight responsibility over President Trump and the executive branch.
BALDWIN: Wouldn't that be an impeachment inquiry?
GABBARD: I think that impeachment is something -- that is a step that will divide the country and we'll be worse off for our country, and that's why I think the American people should make that choice.
BALDWIN: Let's switch gears to Trump speaking today in front of the U.N. General Assembly. And so he's talking tough on Iran. We know that in the rare move on Friday the Pentagon announced a group of troops heading to Saudi Arabia. Should troops put their lives on the line for Saudi Arabia?
GABBARD: Absolutely not.
BALDWIN: Tell me why.
GABBARD: Absolutely not. This is something, as you know, I take very personally both because this my brothers and sisters in uniform. We're talking about, people who have raised their hands, taken an oath to support and defend our Constitution, the American people, and to put their lives on the line. Basically to pawn off our troops to serve a foreign power, and a foreign power, Saudi Arabia, that continues to provide direct and indirect support to al Qaeda now in places like Yemen and Syria, the very same terrorist group that attacked us on 9/11. The very same terrorist group that so many of us after that attack enlisted in the military, to go and to try to defeat.
This decision by Trump is an outright betrayal of every single one of us who wear the uniform, everyone who has sacrificed so much in waging these wars, and to those survivors of that attack on 9/11.
BALDWIN: Do you think it's illegal for Trump to move those troops without Congress?
GABBARD: I think it's absolutely unconstitutional, and the fact that this administration is not even entertaining the idea of going and abiding by the Constitution, going to Congress and getting that authorization is something that needs to be checked. And we're pushing legislation in Congress to do just that.
BALDWIN: You're running for President. If you were President right now, how would be deal with Iran?
GABBARD: I would see the situation for what it is, which is this latest attack on Saudi Arabia is a retaliatory attack because of all the sanctions in place that are essentially blocking Iran from selling their oil on the market. So by recognizing that this is a retaliatory attack, that we cannot continue this cycle of retaliation that can only lead to an all-out inferno of a war both in Iran and across the region that would be so costly and devastating that would make the war we served in in Iraq look like a picnic in comparison in lost American lives, trillions of taxpayer dollars, exacerbating an already terrible refugee crisis. This is not serving the interests of our people nor is it serving in the interest of our national security.
As President right now what I would do is re-enter the Iran nuclear agreement, take away those sanctions that have been put in place so that Iran is brought back into an agreement where they are complying. We have inspectors going in because every single day that this doesn't happen, Iran is moving forward towards developing a nuclear weapon.
BALDWIN: Do you -- just back on the troops -- do you regret the pimps and prostitute language?
GABBARD: Not at all. That's exactly what Trump is doing. He is treating our troops as though we are something that can be pawned off or prostituted off to the highest bidder. Our troops deploying now to Saudi Arabia at his direction are not there serving the interests of the American people or our own national security. In this administration's own words they're going to protect Saudi Arabia's oil, Saudi Arabia's infrastructure, protecting them which undermines the whole reason why we take this oath willing to lay our lives down for our country. And he is sending them to protect a country that is allied with our enemy al Qaeda.
BALDWIN: We will see you at CNN's next debate. Tulsi Gabbard, Congresswoman, thank you so much for coming by. I appreciate you --
GABBARD: Thanks.
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