CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Ted Lieu"

Interview

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WHITFIELD: As House Democrats quickly move to investigate allegations at the center of an impeachment inquiry into President Trump, House Intel Committee chair Adam Schiff tells CNN his committee expects a hearing as soon as next week, this as the rest of Congress is on break.

In addition, sources say the panel will hold another closed door briefing with intel community inspector general Michael Atkinson next Friday.

I'm joined now by a member of the House Judiciary Committee, California Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu. Good to see you -- congressman. So impeachment -- can you hear me ok?

REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: Yes, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: Ok, goody. All right.

So impeachment, you know, has been discussed, you know, on and off over the past couple of years. And, you know, this week was very significant because you've got the House Speaker who said there have been violations of law and violations of the constitution on the heels of that whistleblower complaint.

Why in your view was this the breaking point?

LIEU: Ok. Thank you, Fredericka -- for your question.

Let me make clear that impeachment is one of the gravest powers of Congress, second only to our power to declare war. It should never be our first option and must always be our last option. Were going to follow the facts where it may lead us.

And the facts that have come out are very damning for the President. It shows that Donald Trump solicited a foreign leader to investigate and American citizen for political purposes and he did that one week after he cut off critical military to aid to this foreign government.

I'm a former prosecutor. This looks to me like a shakedown of the Ukrainian leader to help benefit Trump's political campaign.

WHITFIELD: For you was it the moment of the President Trump saying it was a perfect call and, you know, I'm willing to release the transcript? I mean it essentially was an admission that that kind of conversation took place. However, once the transcript was released it was the President who said, you know, there's no quid pro quo here, it's just a conversation.

LIEU: It was absolutely not a perfect call. We know that because the White House tried to lock down this transcript and cover it up. They didn't want very many people to see it. And if you read the transcript, it's actually a rough transcript, we don't know what the actual complete conversation was. We only had the summarized notes.

WHITFIELD: And quickly --

LIEU: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- now that it's the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell reportedly, we are learning who at the urging of McConnell that the portion of these transcripts were released. What's your view? What's your reaction to the involvement of Mitch McConnell reportedly here?

LIEU: So the reason that this impeachment inquiry is different, is this is not a partisan issue. It's an American issue. No American president should ever be soliciting a foreign power to target an American citizen for political purposes. And when you look at this rough transcript, literally right after the Ukrainian leader raises the issue of U.S. military aid, Donald Trump asked for two favors, one of which is to go after Joe Biden.

WHITFIELD: You serve on the Foreign Affairs Committee, you know, one of three committees to subpoena the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. What do you want to know from him?

[11:20:02]

LIEU: We need to know the involvement of not just Secretary Pompeo but what he knew about what Donald Trump knew about this entire campaign. When you look at the whistleblower complaint, when you look at all the context -- this was not a random conversation Donald Trump had. This was a months' long campaign to get the Ukrainian government to go investigate Joe Biden.

And so we want to know who else knew about this? How much pressure was put on Ukrainian leader? And why was it military aid cut off? There was no explanation given to Congress.

WHITFIELD: The personal attorney of the President, Rudy Giuliani, says he actually received directives from the State Department. When and if Pompeo is to testify, how much do you believe he will elaborate on what kind of guidance, instruction, directives he may have given the personal attorney of the President?

LIEU: Right. For the sake of our country, I hope there's an innocent explanation for all of this in which case, the Trump administration will have all the truth come out and not obstruct anything.

However, if they obstruct, if they prevent Pompeo from producing documents, they prevent witnesses from testifying then the American people will certainly know that the Trump administration is trying to hide information from Congress and from American people. and that means there are very nefarious reasons for why Donald Trump did what he did.

WHITFIELD: And then quickly, the whistleblower through the attorneys representing the whistleblower has expressed a willingness to testify given certain protections on the person's identity. Do you see that testimony from this whistleblower is going to happen and if so when?

LIEU: I hope that Congress hears from this whistleblower, that that person shows tremendous courage. Congress passed a whistleblower protection statute to allow people who are patriotic, who want to put country first, to reveal information in an appropriate manner that shows that high level officials including the President may be betraying our nation. I encourage any other patriotic officials to also do the same thing.

WHITFIELD: And then now this "New York Times" reporting, President Trump meeting with the NRA chief executive Wayne Lapierre at the White House Friday, yesterday, to reportedly discuss how the NRA could support Trump during any potential impeachment process and his re- election.

Upon learning that, you tweeted this. "Earlier allegation that that POTUS and NRA discussed gun legislation and money for his defense shows Trump will use official action to benefit himself."

So what can you do with this kind of information? What are you implying is a trend from this president?

LIEU: Right. So the focus right now is singularly going to be on this Ukrainian scandal because it shows the President betraying our national interest and using official action to do that.

What this NRA episode shows is a similar pattern of behavior where you've got Donald Trump taking action on official bills such as guns and either not signing them or saying he's not going to support them. In the same conversation he's having about having support from the NRA for his impeachment defense.

You can't do that. You can't mix these two things together in the same conversation. Depending on what exactly was said and how it was said, it could either be massively inappropriate or it could just be a straight-up bribe, which would be a felony.

WHITFIELD: And then according to the NPR, a new Senate report reveals that the NRA acted as a foreign asset, according to the report, for Russia over a period leading up to the 2016 election. And that included, you know, underwritten political access for Russian nationals including Russian agent Maria Butina.

The report also described how the gun rights group was closely involved with organizing a 2015 visit by some of its leaders to Moscow. So what's your reaction to this?

LIEU: It appears that the NRA knew that they may have been dealing with agents of a foreign power in the States specifically Russia. We know that the NRA spent massive amounts of money in 2016 helping to elect Donald Trump.

We're also looking to see if any Russian persons or the Russian government may have given money to the NRA. There's a lot of folks looking at this issue and we'll see what the evidence that comes out shows.

WHITFIELD: Congressman Ted Lieu -- always good to see you. Thank you so much.

LIEU: Thank you.

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