MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: "Fears of ISIS resurgence."

Interview

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HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. Even as more witnesses come before Congress and the cast of characters grow, the central core facts the Ukraine story do not change. We know from documents the White House itself released and through statements by the President himself that the President of the United States corruptly abused the power of his office to coerce an occupied country into manufacturing dirt on his political opponent.The president of Ukraine told Trump he wanted to buy more American weapons, President Trump responded I want to ask you a favor though. That is what the whistleblower warned Congress about. That is what led House Democrats to open an impeachment investigation into the president. And what we`ve learned from that investigation hasn`t been any better for the president. Today, the third current or former Trump administration official testified as part of that investigation, and it was another marathon session. After former U.S. Ambassador Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch testified before three House committees for nine hours on Friday, today Trump`s former top aide on Russia and Europe Fiona Hill testified for -- well, she`s still going. Hill is a fascinating figure because she was one of the foremost Russia experts in the government. She was an intelligence officer with the National Intelligence Council under both President George W. Bush and President Barack Obama. She`s written several books on Russia including a critical biography of Vladimir Putin titled Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin. She has a master`s in Soviet Studies, a doctorate in history from Harvard, also a master`s in Russian and Modern History from St. Andrews University in Scotland. We don`t know exactly what Hill told Congress today. NBC News first reported she planned to say Rudy Giuliani and E.U. Ambassador Gordon Sondland circumvented the National Security Council and the normal White House process to pursue a shadow policy on Ukraine. If that`s true, it shows again the scandal was not just an offhand comment Trump made and a phone call with Ukraine`s president. It was a systematic strategy to use the tools of the American state to gain foreign assistance for Donald Trump in the 2020 election. Meanwhile, we now also have this whole other part of this unfolding scandal. So while Congress is turning ahead deposing witnesses, demanding documents, and there are big deadlines this week and big witnesses set to testify, the FBI arrested these two Soviet-born American citizen businessmen last week on federal campaign corruption charges just a few hours after those two men had lunch at a Trump hotel with Rudy Giuliani, a man who was essentially taken on the role the President`s fixer. Now, Giuliani appears to be the subject of a criminal investigation by the Southern District of New York, the office he once ran. We`re learning more about Giuliani`s links to these two sketchy businessmen including bringing into President George H.W. Bush`s funeral last year, and their own insane complex of interest in mesh in a world of Ukrainian and Russian back corruption. Now the other guy Fiona Hill was expected to discuss today was Trump`s ambassador to E.U. Gordon Sandlin the Sondland. Sondland had responded to concerns about Trump`s scheme in Ukraine with that legendary very normal text you might remember putting in writing, the president has been crystal clear no quid pro quos of any kind. Trump even pointed to that text incorrectly calling it a tweet as proof that he was innocent. But now, the Washington Post reporting that when Sondland testifies before House committees Thursday, he will say the content of that text message was relayed to him directly by President Trump, directly by President Trump. The president dictated his own cover story in the midst of the scandal. The big question for today is what happened behind those closed doors with Fiona Hill. And here now to help answer is one of the Congresspeople who attended her marathon testimony Democratic Congressman Denny Heck of Washington, a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, I know you can`t get into the details of what you`ve heard today, but can you describe what the testimony was like?

REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA): So I would characterize Dr. Hill in three ways. First of all, in my seven years of Congress, I would -- I would candidly honestly tell you, Chris, she`s the most substantive witness I`ve observed before any committee, and that`s over a course of thousands of hours of testimony. Secondly, I believe the woman has an eidetic memory. If she doesn`t have total recall, it`s very close to it. And thirdly, I can tell you that in the tenth hour, she had every bit as much energy as she had in the first hour.

HAYES: It sounds like she had a lot to say if she`s still there.

HECK: She did have an incredible amount to say. But in fact I would say about all three witnesses, Chris, that they`ve added very considerably to our efforts to get to the bottom of this to the entire truth of how this happened with the President ending up doing a shakedown and a cover-up of his blatant violation of federal law asking President Zelensky of Ukraine to interfere in our 2020 presidential elections. Everyone has brought something new and different to the table that has helped bring into even clearer and more stark relief what went on here and it isn`t pretty.

HAYES: Well, so I`m curious about the trajectory here. You know, we had Kurt Volker who came and testified but he no longer works for the State Department. And then Gordon Sondland who is set to testify this week was stopped at the last minute, at the -- in the middle of the night the White House says no. And since then, it seems to me like a dam is kind of broken. Marie Yovanovitch who still a State Department employee coming before you. Today, Fiona Hill coming before you. Gordon Sondland now is going to come this week, others as well. The former number two to Mike Pompeo, Mr. McKinley, is going to come. What has happened here? This is striking to me that the White House as much as it`s trying to stop people from talking to you or turn over documents, it looks like you`re getting to actually talk to people and learn thing.

HECK: Yes, it feels like the dam is breaking right, Chris. I thought the fact that Mr. McKinley agreed to come before us I believe it is the day after tomorrow was very significant. He`s a distinguished career diplomat who has an incredible depth of understanding about how diplomacy should work. He`s had some of the most significant diplomatic postings within the State Department. And I think we`re going to learn a lot from him. But then again, I think we`re learning a lot from each and every one.

HAYES: What -- how would you describe what you`re learning? I mean -- and also explain to me why are these being done as closed-door depositions?

HECK: Because they`re depositions, right? We`re conducting this to the highest standards and the best practices of investigations. We`re not in the public hearing portion of this yet. We will get there. But that -- but we -- what we don`t want is for all of the witnesses, some of whom will be hostile, to coordinate with one another because that will impede us in our effort to get to the complete truth.

HAYES: I see.

HECK: And I think that`s what the American public wants. Obviously, they`re going to want to know all this information at some point. But for the time being, what they want us to do is get to the truth.

HAYES: And you feel like anything you have heard in this witness testimony has been exculpatory for the president or altered you`re thinking about this? You keep smiling but I`m asking because you`re in there and I`m not.

HECK: Right. We keep getting asked the question in 923 day -- 923 different ways, what did she say to you. And of course, again, we can`t answer. But I again, I`ll reiterate that I think every single person has come before us has added new information and given new depth to our understanding about what went on here. Chris, I think that there`s enough information in the public domain that as one member I believe it`s clear that the president has committed impeachable offenses. But every member is different in how it is that they get to that point and whether or not they get to that point. So we`re not yet at the truth, and as we know on an almost every 48 or 72- hour basis, something new happens or some new information comes forward, some of it in public and some of it during these depositions. And so we`re kind of trying to ask the question of ourselves, you know, at what point do you have everything because we keep learning more.

HAYES: Final question, there are some deadlines for document production this week including I believe from the White House itself which has said they will not cooperate. Do you have a plan in place for what to do if and when they do not turn over those documents?

HECK: Well, I think Chairman Schiff has said it well that if they refuse to turn over the documents, that in and of itself as an active obstruction to a legitimate Article One Congressional Impeachment Inquiry. And as we know, I think it was the third article of the Nixon impeachment was obstructing Congress` investigation. And secondly, it would be a pretty clear be it tacit indication that they are guilty of something, that they`re hiding something. Again, this entire story is one of the shakedown and then the cover-up and that`s just part of the cover-up.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Denny Heck, thank you so much.

HECK: You`re welcome, sir.

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