CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Ro Khanna"
Interview
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COOPER: So that's then Congressman Gowdy defending the very thing the Republican Congress members were supposedly protesting today. Now, by the way, it's a security violation to bring phones in a secure room.
But you know what? When you're really desperate for attention and you're a member of Congress, apparently security regulations don't apply.
Today, the president tried to rebut the time line of the Ukraine quid pro quo arguing that there is no way it was a quid pro quo because the Ukrainians had no idea the aid was being held up. He tweeted out a quote from a Republican congressman on "Fox and Friends", reading it now, quote: Neither he, Taylor, any other witness has provided them that the Ukrainians were award military aid was being withheld. You can't have the quid pro quo with no quo.
First of all, logically, that's not true. When a small country is reliant on military aid from a big country and not received the aid, even if any expect it's going to come, it doesn't mean they can't be made to feel beholden to the larger country. And secondly, it turns out not long after the president was pushing the idea that Ukraine had idea the aid was being held up, "The New York Times" posted a story based on interviews and documents that they obtained showing that actually, yes, the Ukrainians did know by early August.
Also, tonight, there is new CNN reporting which we'll bring you later on in the broadcast that Ukraine's president was actually feeling pressure as far back as early May to publicly investigate the company tied to Joe Biden's son.
And, of course, there is the Taylor testimony which even some Republicans concede was damaging. Senator John Thune of South Dakota saying although hard in his words to draw hard and fast conclusions, the picture from initial reports was, quote, in his words not a good one. Short time ago, Laura Cooper wrapped up her testimony.
Joining us, of the lawmakers who are was in the room and not there in protest, California Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna.
Congressman, thanks for being with us.
First of all, how much did you learn from Laura Cooper today? Because Republican Mark Meadows says there was no ah-ha moment. Was that your takeaway?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, based on the public information, I think there is further evidence that here there was a quid pro quo, that the president basically is withholding aid, Zelensky is being told that you have to have a public press conference announcing a investigation into Joe Biden. And that's completely unacceptable.
COOPER: Congressman Meadows also said that some of Cooper's testimony conflicted with what Ambassador Taylor told Congress yesterday. Is that accurate?
KHANNA: Well, you know, I'm going to follow the rules, Anderson. And unlike others not be commenting on things that were not supposed to comment on.
But based on the public testimony here is what we know. There is a lot of reason for other people to come in and clarify their previous testimony because what you have on Mr. Taylor's testimony, which I think on the public reporting is most explosive, he says the president basically ordered or directed Zelensky to investigate Biden and we were at a stalemate if he wasn't doing, the aid wasn't getting to him.
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COOPER: Cooper only testified I think for three and a half hours. A lot of the other witnesses obviously have sat for much longer. Did the five-hour delay because of the strange publicity stunt by some Republicans, did that impact the length of her testimony? I mean, were you able to get through everything you wanted to find out from her?
KHANNA: We got through everything. But I want to focus on this publicity stunt. It was more than a publicity stunt. I mean, in this country, we have a rule of law, not a rule by mob.
And no one can go in a city council meeting and obstruct the proceedings. No one can go to a school board meeting and they don't like it and obstruct the proceedings or obstruct the proceedings in court.
I don't understand why being a member of Congress gives you a right to obstruct the rule of law. And as you pointed out, you know, in Benghazi, there were these depositions in the SCIF, the Democrats participated. We thought it was total bogus, the investigation against Hillary Clinton but not a single Democrat was thinking of disrupting the proceedings.
So, this is just contrary to everything the country stands for to interrupt proceedings when the Republicans have every due process.
COOPER: Can you just explain what it was like in the room? I mean, did they just barge into the room? Were some of them yelling? I read some report that Louis Gohmert was yelling, which obviously wouldn't be any suprise.
KHANNA: They barged in. Mo Brooks was outside yelling in the cameras. They barged into the room. And then, later on, there were pizza boxes just strewn all over the SCIF. I mean, they didn't even clean.
COOPER: They brought pizza with them?
KHANNA: There were pizza boxes. I mean, I was in and out but I went the later on with the deposition and there were pizza boxes there lying there that had eaten pizza. But think about this. You know, if someone gets a traffic ticket
imagine -- and you think it's totally unjustified traffic ticket, the cop was wrong, imagine what would happen to you if you went to traffic court and you just went and created a parade, you started yelling and you said this proceeding is ridiculous. I don't have enough rights. You'd be locked up.
So, I guess the question is what makes someone who is a member of Congress think that the rules don't apply to them, that they can just act whatever way they want?
COOPER: I mean, it's -- I guess maybe if the president tells you that's a great idea do it. It's like in a jury if friends and acolytes of the defendant storm the jury room and, you know, start -- try to help the defendant. I mean, the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, I know they sent a letter to the sergeant at arms asking to, quote, take action against the Republicans who breached the SCIF. He doesn't specify what that should look like.
But some of the folks sent out videos of themselves violating federal law. Do you think --
KHANNA: Absolutely.
COOPER: -- action will be taken?
KHANNA: There should be consequences. I mean, these are the places where the most sensitive classified information is shared. No one -- everyone knows this, you are not allowed to take any electronic device. Or comment anything about anything said there.
And yet you have people there taking phones, tweeting out about this. It's making a mockery of the process.
And it's not just a mockery of the rule of law. I mean, think about in a sports game or something, if you didn't like the call of the ref, imagine someone storming the court or the field. I mean, we would -- we teach our kids this is not how America works.
Then you've got elected officials thinking the rules don't apply. I think -- Anderson, this is the problem with the president. He doesn't understand that we live in a constitutional democracy where the rule of law matters more than any individual. And that's what we're losing in this country.
COOPER: I feel like -- I remember you know over the years you know newscasts have played videos of politician in South Korea fighting and/or in some Eastern European country battling each other. And it seemed like a joke. Can you believe that that would happen there?
I mean, this is like one step toward that. I mean, who knows where we'll be a few months from now. Congressman -- yes.
KHANNA: You know, it was sad. I don't want to reveal who, but I was in the elevator going back to the office, and you had members of Congress yelling at each other today which I've never seen before. I mean, usually, people are civil. But there is a tension now that is really undermining the hauls of Congress. And it's sad to see.
COOPER: Yes. Well, maybe that person didn't get enough pizza.
Congressman Khanna, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
KHANNA: Thank you.
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