MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: "House subpoenas E.U. Ambassador Sondland"
Interview
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MADDOW: The Senate Intelligence Committee today released volume II of their report on what happened during the 2016 presidential election. This one is on the way that social media was used as a battlefield for the Kremlin-directed efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election. And the report has a bunch of new details, including this weird account of Russians at the Internet Research Agency, which is run by a Kremlin-connected oligarch, saying that they celebrated with champagne when the news arrived that Trump had won the election on election night in 2016. They popped champagne, because it meant that their efforts from that Kremlin-directed troll farm in St. Petersburg has been successful. They got what they had been working for. Beyond eye-popping new detail like that, though, the most important thing is the stark top-line result of what Senate Intelligence Committee concluded, especially because they did so on a bipartisan basis. Bottom line, as far as they`re concerned, is, quote, the intelligence community assessed that the Russian government aspired to help President-elect Trump`s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. The committee found that IRA social media activity was overtly and almost invariably supportive of then-candidate Trump and to the detriment of Secretary Clinton`s campaign. They also concluded bluntly that this social media effort to hurt Hillary Clinton`s chances and help Donald Trump`s chances was directed from the Kremlin. So, in short, it was Russia and Russia did it. And this should not be a surprise to anybody who has been paying attention, right? Except for the fact that alongside the thing for which the president is being impeached now, him asking Ukraine to help him against his potential opponent in 2020, the other thing we now know that President Trump was asking for from that nation, from Ukraine, and the thing that the attorney general right now is pursuing around the world is an effort to prove that Russia didn`t attack the 2016 election after all. That it wasn`t them. That maybe it was Ukraine or somewhere else or maybe it was all made up and there was no attack after all. The Senate Intelligence Committee saying today, on a bipartisan basis, that, yes, there was an attack. Yes, it was big. Yes, it was to support Trump getting elected, and yes, it was directed by the Kremlin. Joining us now is Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. He`s a member of both the House Intelligence Committee and the Oversight Committee in the House as well. Sir, thanks very much for being here tonight. I really appreciate it.
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: So I know there is a lot going on right now. I do want to ask you about this very blunt conclusion from your counterpart committee in the Senate, the Intelligence Committee in the Senate, which is run by the Republicans, led by Senator Richard Burr, that it was definitely Russia, it was a big deal of a campaign, it was directed by the Kremlin, and they were trying to elect Trump. I wonder if you feel like that is going to have a knock-on effect for any of the impeachment proceedings you guys are pursuing or anything else that you`re confronting right now when it comes to Bill Barr and the Justice Department and the White House?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, I think it reinforces the fact that, you know, for -- since 2016, America has been resolute in its determination that we not let what happened in 2016 happen again. And that`s, I think, part of the reason why I think American public sentiment is so in favor of this impeachment inquiry right now, because the allegations at issue are that the Trump administration is trying to get a foreign power to meddle in our democracy again, and this time in 2020. And so, I think it just reinforced why this impeachment inquiry is actually so important and it`s something that the American people favor.
MADDOW: I was, I guess, not surprised, but interested in the way that Ambassador Sondland decided not to show up today. Ambassador Sondland appears to have been a very important witness and participant in terms of this scheme that the president is being impeached for now. If you listen to his lawyers, they say, listen, he traveled back to Washington to do this, he prepared the documents that he had been asked to hand over. He`s not only prepared to participate in this deposition, he was enthusiastic and ready to do it and wanted to be as helpful as he could. He was only blocked from doing this because of a post-midnight call from the State Department and with a heavy heart, he`s bound to do what they say. I feel like there`s a little bit of drama, a melodrama in the way that they are portraying this. What`s your perspective on him backing out of that deposition and what might happen next here?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, we`re going to make it just a little easier on him, Rachel, and that means we`re going to give him a subpoena, which we delivered tonight, just to make sure that he has a personal invitation to appear. I think that, you know, Mr. Sondland is really at the heart of the allegations of the complaint. As you pointed out before, apparently, he talked to the president just a few minutes before the July 25th call with President Zelensky, and in aftermath, he had various conversations to basically effectuate this pressure campaign on Zelensky. According to the "Wall Street Journal", he apparently talked to Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin who had been asking, what`s going on with this military aid, why is it being held up? And apparently, he was very frank with Mr. Johnson, Senator Johnson, and just told him, well, it all depends on these investigations happening with regard to Mr. Biden, as well as the Ukraine supposedly interfering in the 2016 elections, as opposed to Russia, which is, of course, a big bogus claim, which we can talk about that separately. But it`s very important that we hear from Mr. Sondland.
MADDOW: Do you expect we got this letter from the White House today essentially saying that we`re going to pretend that the impeachment proceeding isn`t happening? As far as we`re concerned, it`s not a real thing, so don`t expect to get anything from us. I didn`t read that as a legalistic argument from the White House counsel`s office.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No.
MADDOW: It seemed like sort of a declaration of intent. Do you think that will change anything in terms of trying to get witnesses in evidence?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I don`t think so. I think that just a couple of things. One, I think that anybody who doesn`t appear for testimony or anybody who blocks documents from being produced, I think they will figure into an obstruction count with regard to this impeachment inquiry. And the second point, which is very important, is that I think that their blocked testimony or documents will likely invite the inference that those documents and testimonies support the allegations of the complaint. And now, Rachel, I think that because of public sentiment the way it is, in support of this impeachment inquiry, I think that, quite frankly, the president and the White House stalling and delaying doesn`t play well. And it actually hurts their position, because I think there`s a presumption now that something serious went wrong with that July 25th call. And that the whistle-blower`s complaint may have, you know, more weight than meets the eye.
MADDOW: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, member of the House Intel Committee and the Oversight Committee -- sir, thanks for being here tonight. Much appreciated.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you. Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: All right. Busy night. Stay with us.
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