MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: "Giuliani's associates in Ukraine scandal charged."
Interview
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MADDOW: We`ve got Congressman Adam Schiff of California standing by. We`re going to speak with him in just a moment. He, of course, is the head of the intelligence committee and is essentially taking point on the impeachment proceedings at this point. Just before I bring in Congressman Schiff, I just want to tell you about some breaking news that has just been posted at "The Washington Post" website. The headline is: Senior advisor to Pompeo resigns. Michael McKinley, a career diplomat and senior advisor to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, has resigned his position amid rising dissatisfaction and plummeting morale inside the State Department over what is seen as Pompeo`s failure to support personnel ensnared in the Ukraine controversy. McKinley is a senior officer who`s held a range of diplomatic posts, including ambassador to Afghanistan, Colombia, Peru and Brazil. He was ambassador to Brazil when Pompeo recruited him to come to Washington and be his senior policy advisor. According to "The Washington Post", like many others, McKinley was disappointed in Secretary Pompeo`s lack of public support for diplomats who have been named in the Ukraine controversy. Concern has been especially high for Marie Yovanovitch, the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, whom Pompeo recalled from her post when a right-wing media campaign accused her of disloyalty. Yovanovitch had questioned Giuliani`s efforts TO press Ukraine to investigate Trump`s political rivals. That, of course, is the scandal for which the president is now being impeached. Yovanovitch is scheduled, of course, to give a deposition to the investigating committees tomorrow morning. Joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff of the great state of California, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and point man essentially on impeachment at this point. Congressman, thanks very much for being here.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Great to be with you.
MADDOW: So I want to ask first your reaction to this breaking news. This is a senior career diplomat at the State Department advising apparently in protest of Secretary of State Pompeo not supporting the diplomats caught up and in some cases demoted because of this Ukraine scheme.
SCHIFF: Well, you know, I think it`s a reflection of the fact that morale at the department has really plummeted. A lot of the career people who are devoted to furthering the best interests of the United States, devoting themselves to upholding the values of the United States feel that those values are being undermined by the way the department is run, that the career people, the real professionals are being undermined and people are making a decision they`re not going to put up with it anymore. This is -- you know, there are a lot of story lines running through this investigation and certainly one of them is about the effort of career professionals not just in the State Department, but throughout the government who are trying to do the right thing and running into this political interference of the White House, this corrupt influence of the White House and, you know, I think this resignation may very well have to do with the fact that people are deciding they`re simply not going to put up with this anymore and can`t look the other way.
MADDOW: Let me ask you, sir, in kind of a big picture way right now. Obviously, we`ve been covering the impeachment proceedings since they were initially announced by the House speaker a few weeks ago. We`ve been covering it as intensively as anybody. And as you know, the whole national media is very intently focused on what`s going on, wondering if this is going to become a more complex inquiry than the relatively simple allegation against the president that started this, that the White House essentially has already admitted the president committed. I just want to ask in a big picture way if you feel like we in the media are accurately understanding the way it is that you are pursuing this. If you feel like the national public understanding of what you are doing is accurate or if there`s something else about the way you are proceeding that you feel like you want people to understand?
SCHIFF: Well, you know, look, I think that the challenge for the country and challenge for the media, and this is a challenge for our investigation as well is that developments are breaking so fast and furious. I mean, there were probably more than a dozen significant developments just today alone that it`s hard to be able to put them in context. And I think that, you know, you do a masterful job of that and did so in the open of your show today. But let me just, I guess, frame it this way for people. We know based on the call record that the president pressured his Ukrainian counterpart essentially to investigate his rival, to investigate this debunked conspiracy theory in 2016 to engage in political investigations designed to help his re-election. We know that he did that in the context of the Ukraine president asking for more military assistance. That alone is an egregious abuse of the president`s office and one that endangers our country. But we also know that it goes beyond that one call, that indeed there was a lot of groundwork laid before that call and a lot of work after that call. And I think these text messages make it pretty clear that there were a couple of things that the Ukraine president desperately wanted from Donald Trump. One was a meeting in the White House. Now, there`s been a lot of focus on the military aid that Ukraine also desperately sought to fend off Russian aggression. But the meeting was really important to this new president of Ukraine, to show that the relationship between the two countries was strong, that he had a relationship with the U.S. president, that on all of the legitimacy that goes along with a White House meeting. The White House understood how important that was to Ukraine. What`s more -- career diplomats understood how important that was as a showing of U.S. support for Ukraine and its struggle for democracy and its struggle against the Russians. And so, these text messages I think make clear that that meeting was being conditioned on the deliverable they wanted from the president, that they wanted from Ukraine, which was basically these two investigations. And so, we are investigating obviously that whole constellation of issues, what went on before it and after it, but also the withholding of this military support. The irregularity of how that was done. The fact that even Mitch McConnell couldn`t find out from the secretary of state or secretary of defense why that was being done. And so, what we already know is damning, but there may be far more to come. I think that the country should have the full picture, indeed the Congress should have the full picture before it makes a decision on something as weighty as articles of impeachment. But if indeed the administration is determined to try to stonewall that effort, that even as they prevent us from getting some information about the president`s misconduct on Ukraine, they will be building the case against the president for obstruction of Congress.
MADDOW: Very briefly, sir, may I just ask you if you do expect Marie Yovanovitch to testify tomorrow, and if you have any response to the apparent request, the reported request by the initial whistle-blower that he`d like to give his testimony in writing?
SCHIFF: Well, you know, I would say with respect to both, and I don`t want to get into the specifics, that on the whistleblower, we want to protect that whistleblower. We want to protect the whole whistleblower system. And the threats that the president has made, the way the president has talked about those who reveal wrongdoing being spies and traitors is designed to intimidate not just this whistleblower but others as well. And our paramount priority is to protect this whistleblower and others that may want to come forward. With respect to any particular State Department or other witness, I`m going to demur tonight. We also want to do what we can to protect those witnesses and their ability and willingness to come forward without their own form of intimidation or threat coming from the White House or the president`s allies. So, our first priority, protect these courageous people that are stepping forward and then make sure that we can put the facts before the American people.
MADDOW: Chairman Adam Schiff of the House Intelligence Committee -- sir, thanks for taking the time. I know it`s a really, really busy night. Thanks.
SCHIFF: Thank you.
MADDOW: All right. There`s much more ahead. Stay with us.
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