MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Mathews" - Transcript: "Trump admits discussing Biden."

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. President Trump`s brazen solicitation of dirt on a political adversary, Joe Biden, under the guise of conducting foreign policy, has reignited the debate over impeachment within the House Democratic Caucus. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi sent a letter to her Democratic Caucus members explaining that she expects the acting director of national intelligence to hand over that whistle-blower`s complaint and make it available to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. She ended the letter with a vague new threat: "If the administration persists in blocking this whistle-blower from disclosing to Congress a serious possible breach of constitutional duties by the president, they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness, which will take us into a whole new stage of investigation." And there`s breaking news just tonight from "The Washington Post." House Democratic leaders have called a caucus meeting tomorrow afternoon to discuss questions of impeachment. For more, I`m joined by Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, Democrat from Illinois and a member of both the Oversight and Intelligence committees. Congressman, this meeting tomorrow afternoon called by Pelosi, what do you make of it? Is this going to be a decision-making meeting or a meeting to calm you People down?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): I think it`s probably going to be a meeting where people can express their views and have a chance to kind of weigh in on what`s happening this week. I just want to point to you the seriousness of what`s about to happen this Thursday. It`s a follow-on to hearing, a closed-door hearing that we had last week, probably the most sobering intelligence hearing I have been to. We had a witness from central casting who basically came in and gave very careful, considered and consistent testimony, basically saying to us, do something about this complaint. And he happened to be appointed by the Trump administration. So that`s why I think people are so concerned right now.

MATTHEWS: Well, that`s the inspector general. But what about the head of the DNI?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Right.

MATTHEWS: Is he going -- the director of national intelligence, you`re going to have him in on Thursday, Mr. Maguire.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes.

MATTHEWS: If he stiffs you guys, if he strong-arms -- straight-arms you and say, you`re not going to get the complaint, even though the law requires you get it, what then?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, he backs us into a corner. The Trump administration backs us into a corner, where we have to basically look at other tools. As Chairman Schiff said, essentially, at that point, we have a couple different options. I think going down the impeachment road might be one of them. I think -- right now, I think a lot of my colleagues -- by the way, during that hearing last week, Republicans were unusually engaged on this particular issue, in part because this guy, the inspector general, has no reason to lie. In fact, telling the truth probably might cost him his career.

MATTHEWS: Well, I think we know already the heart of the conversation. The president was seeking dirt against a political opponent and using the goodwill of the American presidency to get it. Let me -- you -- ask you that central question now, Congressman. Would it be a high crime for a president to do such a thing?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, I think -- the Mueller investigation was about whether the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians to interfere in our democracy. Here, if the reporting is accurate, then Trump is inviting and asking another power to interfere in our democracy and conspiring with them in the process. This is, in my opinion, even worse than what was thought to potentially have happened in 2016.

MATTHEWS: Tell me why you think this is what it is, a high crime. Describe the transaction that we -- we understand the president have been engaged in with the -- with the Ukrainian president, Zelensky. What was the transaction, as you understood it?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, we know, at a minimum, that he talked about -- according to the reporting, if it`s accurate, that he talked about investigating Vice President Biden. The other fact which is also in the mix, which we`re not sure about, was whether there was a quid pro quo. Namely, we will give you aid, which you were already obligated to receive, in return for conducting this inquiry in Biden. So that even makes the situation worse. And so that`s why we have to get that complaint. We have to get the transcript of the calls as well.

MATTHEWS: Where`s Pelosi on this? Because you have about 130-35 members of the House Democrats, of the caucus, who are for beginning a formal impeachment process.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes. Yes.

MATTHEWS: You`ve got about a hundred who aren`t on board for doing it. How many will it take to get Pelosi to move and say, yes, we`re going to go ahead with a formal resolution of impeachment to begin the procedures?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don`t know. You`d have to ask her. But what I do know is that right now we have a majority of the caucus, including myself who would urge the impeachment process to begin, but that`s not a majority of the House.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: And you do need a majority of the House to proceed. So I think that might be weighing on any calculations here as well.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let`s see how that moves by Thursday, if you get stiff armed again, I don`t know what you can do. Anyway, thank you, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you. Thank you, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Thank you so much from Illinois.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.

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