MSNBC Hardball - Transcript

MSNBC Hardball - Transcript
Tuesday, November 15, 2005

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.

Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota is on the Senate Armed Services Committee. He's one of only 19 senators today who voted against the Republican-backed Iraq resolution.

He's here to tell us why. Senator, you were in the minority, just 19 senators voted against that resolution calling for a dramatic transition next year to sovereignty in Iraq. Why did you do it?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: There are a number of senators, like myself, who are on the Armed Services Committee, Chris, who made that vote today. Senator McCain, Senator Graham, a whole bunch of us who saw this, as I think, the wrong message to send at this time.

Obviously this was an attempt-the original amendment by the Democrats to force the president's hand in and tie his hands. And I think that a lot of us saw this as something that weakens and softens our support and the approach that we're taking to winning the war on terror.

And sends the wrong message not only to our troops, but to the Iraqi people, and also to the terrorists.

MATTHEWS: Do you think the Republican majority was simply passing something that looked like the Democratic alternative to get by, get through the day?

THUNE: Well, I think there was a lot of give and take and there was an effort to accommodate and try to strike a consensus or a compromise.

But the truth is, this was a sense of Congress and a sense of Congress simply means it's a statement of, you know, the Senate's priorities.

It really doesn't have any-it doesn't have any binding effect. There were some reporting requirements in there, that were legislative. I don't think that this was-I don't think you'd view this as something that was really substantial in terms of the statement that it's making about the war on terror.

MATTHEWS: I opened the show by saying the difference between the Democratic proposal today, which called for the president to set a deadline for removing our troops ultimately, and the Republican alternative which basically talked in general language about a transition to sovereignty next year, which is already in planning, is the difference between a lightning bolt and a lightning bug.

You didn't even like the lightning bug part.

THUNE: I didn't, and a number of us saw it that way. We didn't see this as something that was meaningful or significant and was simply in an effort to try and take this issue off the table so we could pass the Defense Authorization Bill and at the end of the day, we want to continue to make sure that our troops and our commanders have their support, that this doesn't send them the wrong message.

That it doesn't send the wrong message to the Iraqi people and that it doesn't signal to the terrorists that we are somehow softening or weakening in our position and that we're not going to finish the job we started out to do.

MATTHEWS: Let's talk about the terrorism threat from Iraq and the from the neighboring areas there. You must have read, it was an incredible story, this woman who went into the hotel where they're having a wedding or something and she's all dressed up with dynamite. She's going to blow herself up. Her husband did so. Her operation didn't work. She did it, she said, because she saw all the injured or killed people in Fallujah when we were retaking that town in Iraq.

If we're over there to force the war over there rather than here, is it possible that Iraq is itself causing more terrorists?

THUNE: Well, I think what you're seeing is-and this is where I believe that Jordan now, more than ever, is buying into the war on terror and probably was attacked because they've been doing some of the training in their country.

And I think this week, Saudi Arabia contributing a billion dollars toward the cause, people are realizing that we're making progress there. Yes, there is an insurgent element that continues to be an issue that we have to contend with and deal with.

But more and more, the Iraqis are stepping up and providing the security. And that ultimately is what's going to allow us to get our soldiers home from that region is one.

To stand up for democracy and to raise an army and I think we're making progress on both of those fronts, and so I'm hopeful that we'll see continued support from the region for us accomplishing that objective.

MATTHEWS: Are you worried that we might be creating more terrorists?

THUNE: You know, I don't think that's the case. I think in the long run what we're doing is creating sympathy. There was nothing but sympathy coming from the people of Jordan for our cause, when they experienced first hand what happened to their people last week.

And I think that clearly when you're in war, there are going to be people who don't perceive what we're doing to be the correct thing in Iraq. But I think the huge majority, as we're seeing from these elections, and the way that people are turning out to vote, support what is happening there.

They want to see democracy work. They want to see freedom work. They want to enjoy the rights and privileges that a democracy can bring to them and to their region.

MATTHEWS: We've got a new poll out from CNN, it's a Gallop poll that says 65 percent of the American people don't like the president's handling of Iraq. South Dakota has always been a hard state for me to figure because you've had McGovern there, you've had conservatives like yourself. How is the war playing at home?

THUNE: Well, I think like everywhere else, there is a fatigue that comes. We've been there for a long time. There is constant reporting of some of the bad news, but I think that people in my state tend to be-they cut, I think, the benefit, or give the president the benefit of the doubt here. They want to see us succeed.

And when you talk to the troops that have been deployed to the region, they really believe in what we're doing and I think the majority of South Dakotans want to see us succeed and realize in order for us to complete the mission, that we have to stay the course. We have to finish the job.

And I think that's the view of the ground in South Dakota. I see the public opinion polls and I think it's reflective of the fact that there is some fatigue out there, but at the end of the day, people realize there's not a good alternative. Right now, what we have to do is, we've got to complete the task at hand.

MATTHEWS: Let's talk about you Senator Thune, you're new to this Senate. I've noticed that a retiring member of the Senate this past Sunday, John Edwards, who ran as the Democratic V.P. candidate said he was wrong to have voted to authorize the war. You weren't there when the vote was cast. Would you have voted to authorize the war in 2002?

THUNE: I actually-I was in the House at the time. I did vote for it and I saw what Senator Edwards said. I think that at the time, there were 29 out of the 50 Democrats in the Senate and 81 of the Democrats in the House voted to authorize it. And what you're seeing now, I think, is a lot of really reckless statements being made about pre-war intelligence.

In my view, it's irresponsible for elected officials absent evidence to go out and make some of the allegations and the attacks and the charges that many of the Democrats are making today.

Senator Edwards maybe came to that conclusion for all of the right reasons but I don't think anything has changed. The only thing that's changed is people looking at public opinion polls and I don't think we ought to conduct and prosecute wars by public opinion polls. This is foremost about principle and the principle here is to win the war of terror.

MATTHEWS: OK, thank you very much, Senator John Thune of South Dakota.

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