MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: "Trump deploys racist attacks as political tactic."
Interview
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VOSSOUGHIAN: All right. With me now is Democratic Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri who today called for an opening of an impeachment inquiry. Congressman good to see you. So back in June you cautioned against a rush to judgment on impeachment, telling your colleagues quote this "The President will be held accountable for any crimes he may have committed. But in order to ensure that transpires we must be patient". What`s changed for you?
REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D-MO): Well, I still think that we must be patient. I don`t think that we can afford to haphazardly and thoughtlessly run out and start screaming impeachment. But I sat down and had a conversation with Chairman Nadler, listened to Adam Schiff, I`ve listened to individuals on the Judiciary Committee. And I have been convinced that we do need more information. Now do we have enough money - enough information for impeachment? Absolutely. If it only involves the people in Congress. But we`re talking about 300 million people in the United States, and many of them are not convinced. And so we`ve got to have, I think, some rather commanding information to present to them. And all I have seen is the redacted version of the Mueller report. There is also grand jury testimony. And Chairman Nadler is saying, look there`s a lot of information that we don`t have. And some of it we may not get, because for example, in the Southern District, they - we`re talking about counterintelligence, and that may be so sensitive that with our intelligence community that may not be available to us, but maybe it`s available to the House and Senate leadership. But we need to be able to have the judiciary, the third branch of our government agree that now that we`re moving in a direction to have an indictment, we need all of the information. And so we can`t afford to have the executive branch hold people back and say this is like executive privilege. And in some instances just saying, you just can`t - I don`t want you to go. And so we`ve got to have some punch to do that. And I think an inquiry impeachment is just that punch?
VOSSOUGHIAN: And what`s that punch Congressman? What`s that punch?
CLEAVER: Well, that we do have now a more powerful legal argument for the information. Remember, we`re fighting this in court now. And I`m not a lawyer--
VOSSOUGHIAN: But Congressman what is it going to take, because it seems as if this is going to be an incredibly drawn-out process. You`re not even in a formal impeachment inquiry. This is still just an impeachment investigation which then leads to an impeachment inquiry, which then leads to formal impeachment, which could take months. By January you`re effectively into the primary season and then you have a presidential election around the corner. The timing of it all, does it necessarily line up, especially if you`re looking for that punch. And of course, we`ve all been asking, what is the punch that Democrats need to really drive at home, if that`s in fact what they want?
CLEAVER: Well, I don`t think we`re going to pick up a sheet of paper and say, "Oh, my goodness, he`s done this. He`s done that." We have enough. I mean, I`m sure that he has already committed impeachable offenses with the information we have. But we we`ve got to be very thoughtful. We`re talking about undoing an election, even though I don`t think, that even if we impeach the President that there`s any chance that Mitch McConnell, and Republican Senate would do anything. I don`t care what we find, nothing. And so there are those who say that if the Senator quits, it may make it somewhat difficult to put the President on trial after he leaves the White House. Look, we`ve got to be thoughtful about this and I don`t think we just rush in and start screaming impeachment. There will probably come a time when we may have to vote that, based on the information we have, whether or not we want to go for impeachment. And remember, if we have impeachment the government shutdown we`re through until look decisions made.
VOSSOUGHIAN: Look, at the end of the day, you have a 108 on board. It seems you need a lot more for a majority to say the least. Are you confident that more Democrats are going to sign on to this?
CLEAVER: No. I think that many Democrats - my colleagues I`ve had conversation with, they realized that that we`ve got to be very deliberate and they also realize that only 23 percent of the public wants to do this, and they also realize that what Adam Schiff has been telling us is real. And that is, we impeach, and then the Senate says no, and then even people on the base will say, "Well, why did you guys over reach? Why were you -why didn`t you just wait around the election of 16 months from now?"
VOSSOUGHIAN: So if you are not confident Congressman, quickly, if you`re not confident, then is this more just about being on the record about the fact that you support impeachment of this President?
CLEAVER: Well, I do think it`s - there`s - something has to be said for being on the right side of history and I don`t want to be like some of my colleagues on the Republican side who are watching lawlessness and saying nothing. I don`t want that. But I also would like to make sure that we can go and get information that we don`t have at this time.
VOSSOUGHIAN: All right. Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, thank you so much. Appreciate you joining us tonight.
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