MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show - Transcript: "House expected to vote tonight on border."
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
MADDOW: We have some breaking news tonight. Special counsel Robert Mueller has agreed to testify to Congress in an open session on Wednesday, July 17th. This is big news. Word broke just a few minutes ago in a joint statement from the chairman of the House Intelligence and House Judiciary Committees, Congressman Adam Schiff of California and Congressman Jerrold Nadler of New York. This is their statement which they`ve just released, and I`ll tell you just been handed to me so I am reading this as you are. Today, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler and House Committee Chairman Adam Schiff announced special counsel Robert Mueller has agreed to testify per opportunity to a subpoena before the House Judiciary Committee and House Intelligence Committee in open session on Wednesday, July 17th. In announcing the testimony, Nadler and Schiff hereby release this joint statement: Pursuant to subpoenas issued by the Judiciary and Intelligence Committees today, the special counsel has agreed to testify before both committees in open session on July 17th. Quote: Americans have demanded to hear directly from the special counsel so they can understand what he and his team examined, uncovered and determined about Russia`s attack on our democracy. The Trump campaign`s acceptance and use of that help and President Trump and his associates obstruction into that attack. We look forward to hearing his testimony, as do all American. They`ve attached a letter to Robert Mueller which accompanies the actual subpoena, which we also have now. The subpoena commands Robert Mueller to appear on July -- excuse me, July 17th to testify. The letter that`s attached to that subpoena says: Dear special counsel Mueller, attached please find subpoenas from the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee to compel your testimony on July 17th. Over the course of discussions about your appearance before Congress, we`ve consistently communicated our committee`s intention to issue these subpoenas if necessary and we now understand it is necessary to do so. I wonder what that means. Quote: We further understand that there are certain sensitivities associated with our open testimony, and particularly the special counsel`s office referred several criminal investigations to other offices at the Justice Department and certain matters are ongoing. Your office, moreover, admirably limited public comment while the special counsel`s office work was ongoing. You also explained you prefer for the special counsel`s office`s written work to speak for himself. Nevertheless, they conclude: the American public deserves to hear directly from you about your investigation and conclusions. We will work with you to address legitimate concerns about preserving the integrity of your work, but we expect you will join before our committees as scheduled. Joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Sir, I really appreciate you taking time to join us in the wake of this big news.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): You bet. Good to be with you.
MADDOW: So let me ask first about this phrasing and the letter that you have sent tonight to special counsel Mueller. We consistently communicated our committees` intentions to issue these subpoenas if necessary and we now understand it is necessary to do so. Should we see this as a friendly subpoena that Robert Mueller believed had to be issued before he could accept an invitation to testify?
SCHIFF: I don`t think the special counsel`s office would characterize it as a friendly subpoena. He did not want to testify. He made that very clear. And nonetheless, they will respect the subpoena. He will appear. He`ll be testifying before our committee in open session. Each of our members will have an opportunity to ask questions of the special counsel. And the American people get a chance to hear directly from him and have their questions answered. So I think it`s a good result. July 17th is the date we expect him to appear. There will be also a closed session in our committee following his testimony in which we`ll be able to ask questions of his staff that may not be suitable for open session.
MADDOW: So the open session testimony you said will be for both committees. Will the members of the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee sit concurrently for that testimony or will those be sequential hearings with each committee in turn?
SCHIFF: They`ll be sequential hearings on the same day.
MADDOW: OK.
SCHIFF: Followed by private discussions or private testimony in executive session with his staff, but the open portions of the hearing will be back to back in the two committees.
MADDOW: The closed session that will happen with your committee following those of sessions, you mentioned that will be Mueller`s staff. Will that be Mueller as well in addition to his staff and can you tell us who from his staff is expected to testify at that session?
SCHIFF: His testimony will be purely in open session. So all the questions we have for him, we expect to ask in open session. In terms of which of his staff, I can`t go into those particulars at this point, but there are any number of areas that may involve redacted material or may involve a pending case where it`s appropriate to ask those questions in closed session. But our predominant interest is being able to shed light on this investigation for the American people in open session with Bob Mueller himself. And that`s going to be the predominant focus of our time with his team.
MADDOW: You mentioned that Mueller`s office would not see this as a friendly subpoena, that he did not want to testify. Is that also true of his staff and will they be testifying under subpoena or are those appearances voluntary?
SCHIFF: I don`t think either he or he staff are eager to come before the Congress. I think they are doing so because they`re going to honor the subpoena that we`ve issued. In terms of whether there is a separate required subpoena, I can`t comment on that in terms of his staff, but, you know, clearly this is something I think from his perspective as a prosecutor, he`s reluctant to come, as a prosecutor ordinarily would be. But as Bob Mueller was the first to point out in his own report, he did not make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. He did refer this matter to Congress. We have taken it up in our referral and it`s fully appropriate in our view that we have an opportunity to flesh out what the Russians did, how they did it, what the role of the Trump campaign personnel campaign were, what were the counterintelligence issues, what was the process used to handle the counterintelligence concerns, where are the findings -- all of these questions and a great many more the American people should have the opportunity to pose through their representatives to Mueller himself. We never felt it was sufficient to rely simply on a written report or a 10-minute statement without the ability to follow up with questions.
MADDOW: Because we the public have had so little visibility into the way that Mueller works and how he and his team have approached their duties, and obviously there`s been a lot of controversy over the way they chose to approach their investigation to present their finds. I think it`s always been a little bit fuzzy for us outside this process to understand why it is that Mr. Mueller does not want to testify, why he is resistant to speaking at all, as he put it, beyond the four corners of the report that he and his staff put out in writing. Can you shed any light on that for us and tell us what these negotiations have been like? I`ve seen you express dissatisfaction or impatience or frustration that it`s taken this long to arrange his testimony.
SCHIFF: Well, you know, I will let the special counsel speak for himself and their office speak for themselves, but I think that what they have represented to us is that they view themselves as prosecutors, and prosecutors don`t normally talk outside of the trial or outside of the indictment. But let`s face it, this is not a traditional prosecutorial case. And what`s more, Bill Barr has felt more than free as the attorney general to speak well beyond the Mueller report, and if he is able to speak beyond the four corners of the Mueller report, then so too should Bob Mueller feel free so to do so. So we have never concurred with that judgment, but I think that`s where they`re coming from. Yes, it was frustrating that it took so long because it seemed like such an obvious step from my own point of view. If you`re going to accept the role of special counsel in one of the most significant investigations in modern history, you`re going to have to expect that you`re going to be asked to come and testify before Congress. So the only surprise to me is that it`s taken so long, but nonetheless, we`re grateful we have finally reached a resolution and the American people will have an opportunity to hear directly from the man who led this team for almost two years.
MADDOW: Congressman, I know that you have to go vote, and I have to let you go. I want to ask you one question before I let you go.
SCHIFF: Sure.
MADDOW: I`m sorry. Cut me off if you need to. But can you let us know in terms of the questioning and the preparation for having Robert Mueller before you. I`m thinking particularly of that open session. Do you expect that all of the questioning will be done by you and your members on the Intelligence Committee or will this be something where professional staff from the committee are involved in the questioning? We`ve obviously seen in every big controversial congressional investigation all the way back to Watergate, some of the most effective questioning is sometimes done not by elected members but by professional staff. Will that be part of the way that you approach this with Mueller?
SCHIFF: You know, we`re going to sit down as a committee and have this discussion. We have in our discussions with the special counsel arranged so that we`ll have sufficient time that if we go through the traditional format, every member will be able to ask questions. We may choose to allocate the time among the members differently than that. And it`s true that when we have interviewed fact witnesses, and we just conducted the interviews within the last week with a fact witness, we have often staff-led interviews that go on for a period of time where we will ask questions for an hour then the other side will ask questions for an hour. We`ll have to determine whether -- because this is not a fact witness, per se, whether we will use the traditional approach or we`ll use the approach where we concentrate time among fewer members. I think that given the profile of this testimony, it`s more likely to be member questions than staff, but we`re going to be convening among ourselves to determine the best method to approach this hearing.
MADDOW: Just going to be an incredibly important moment for the country. I don`t envy you, the job of prepping for it, sir, but I hope you`ll keep us apprised as we get closer to the date. Thank you for helping us understand tonight.
SCHIFF: You bet.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source