MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show - Transcript: "Trump inaugural facing federal & state investigations."
Interview
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REID: Oh, OK, man, so your vetting process is our fault. Got it. You`re also saving money by not actually betting anybody letting us do it for you. Perfection. So, maybe, we shouldn`t be surprised that Ratcliffe met this fate, but as we wait for round two of presidential roulette DNI edition, it`s worth taking a moment to see the proverbial forest for the trees here, because this is more than just a mere hiring decision. The DNI, a position created in the wake of 9/11, is the top intelligence official in the nation, coordinating all of the other intel agencies. It`s on the intelligence community`s Mount Rushmore. Who the president picks for that gig matters. It determines the strength of the entire intelligence community and it`s not hard to see why Donald Trump might want to rein in the intelligence agencies as he put it. The intel community has been a thorn in his side, particularly when it comes to Russia, taking every opportunity to point out that, yes, Russia interfered in our election in 2016, Russia never stopped and Russia is trying to do it again. In January 2017, they put out that withering report on how Vladimir Putin ordered the attack on our election in order to help Trump, something that according to the Mueller report so upsets Trump because it feels to him like a challenge to his legitimacy. Now, we can extrapolate from Ratcliffe`s qualifications for the DNI job what this -- what is White House -- what this White House occupant is really looking for in the next director of national intelligence, what Trump`s help-wanted ad would say. It might say things like, must be willing to attack special counsel Robert Mueller during his confirmation hearings, must want to settle Trump`s scores and exact vengeance for the Russia investigation, or as the economist put it, quote, Donald Trump wants a loyalist as America`s top intelligence official. Whoever the president picks next, the hunt is on, and it might end sooner than we think. Trump today says he`s got a short list in his pocket with three names on it and he`ll be mulling it this weekend, while you pay for his latest vacay at his golf resort in New Jersey. But somebody else put out an alternative help-wanted ad of sorts, the director -- for the director of national intelligence. Senator Mark Warner, vice chair of the Senate Intel Committee, who said the president should nominate, quote, someone with a deep knowledge of the intelligence community, respect for the hard work intelligence professionals do to keep us safe and the independence and integrity to speak truth to power when necessary. And we shall see which of those help-wanted ads prevails. Joining us now is Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat from Oregon, and a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. When the president tweeted that he was withdrawing the Ratcliffe nomination today, Senator Wyden clapped back: Maybe try vetting your nominees first. Senator Wyden, thanks for being with us tonight.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): Thank you, Joy.
REID: Well, it`s -- Donald Trump said that we vet his nominee, so apparently, that`s the news media`s job. So maybe he won`t listen to you on that.
WYDEN: Most bizarre theory of vetting I`ve ever heard, Joy. I mean, I know the standards have changed a lot with the Trump administration, but we are not talking about national dog capture here. We`re talking about director of national intelligence. And in particular, we need somebody who will tell it straight to Donald Trump, not twist the facts for Donald Trump.
REID: But isn`t it the case that if anyone tells it straight to Donald Trump, they`re going to tell him again that Russia attacked our election and that other foreign countries are potentially working up to attack our election, and that makes me feel insecure. So, is it -- is it -- how likely is it that he would ever pick someone who would be willing to tell him hard truths?
WYDEN: I think you can`t do this job responsibly unless you`re willing to lay those facts that are actual facts on the table, like we understand, this is not about Donald Trump nominating a Democrat or any of this kind of thing. But we have to have somebody who`s experienced, who`s objective and it is not in question that Russia attacked our election system. And serving on the intelligence committee, I can tell you, Joy, what we`re looking at in 2020 in terms of attacks from hostile foreign actors going to make 2016 look like small potatoes.
REID: Well, we know that Donald Trump, you know, wanted what he got in William Barr, and that it`s pretty clear that he would like, you know, given that Mr. Ratcliffe was even on the table, that he would like to have someone like that running intelligence. My question would be, whether or not the leader of the Senate, Mitch McConnell, who tends to be very accommodating to Donald Trump, was he the person that finally convinced Donald Trump to say no, and would he allow Donald Trump to put a William Barr-esque person in as DNI?
WYDEN: My sense is that Republican senators are really wrestling with this, because they know Donald Trump has got one more election. He`s very popular with primaries, but they are branding their party for the longer term and when you look at Devin Nunes, and Ratcliffe and the like, a lot of the Republicans on the Intelligence Committee have been leaning a little bit more towards an institutional approach and acknowledging that the Russians attacked us. Now, let`s see if Trump`s going to go along with that.
REID: And I think that the challenge is, is that, you know, the Republican Party for a very long time prided itself as being Russia hawks, like in the Reagan era, and I wonder if when you talk to your colleagues behind the scenes, how far are they willing to let Donald Trump degrade the intelligence community, essentially just to make himself feel better because he doesn`t want to hear what Russia did to help him in 2016.
WYDEN: I`ve had plenty of differences of opinion with my colleagues. I was the one no vote on the election security report because I thought there needed to be a more activist role for the federal government. When you`re getting attacked by the Russians, you don`t send the county I.T. person out there to fight on the Russians. But I do think my colleagues now on the intelligence committee are going to say, no Ratcliffes, no Nuneses. We want somebody who acknowledges what the real threats are. And Trump is going to have to make a call. Is he going to try and say I only care about somebody who shares my conspiracy theories or am I going to go with the Senate Republicans, particularly on the Intelligence Committee who are going to say we`re not going there?
REID: Well, one of the concerns about people when they looked at Ratcliffe was the fact that he would then have access to all of the information about the ongoing investigations, national security investigations that still relate to what happened in 2016. Is there any chance at all that McConnell and the Republicans would allow somebody on that committee that would undermine the committee? I mean, I guess that`s my question. Do you have faith in Republicans on the other side of the aisle that they would protect the DNI from Donald Trump`s access to that kind of information?
WYDEN: So far, the Republicans on the Intelligence Committee have drawn a line. They have said, look, we are supportive of the Trump administration, we understand that the president sees things differently than we do on a number of occasions. But now, they`re going to have to actually fight back against people who aren`t objective and aren`t willing to have some connection to the facts. It comes down now, finally, America once again has a chance to get a qualified nominee in there. If Donald Trump isn`t willing to have that kind of person, I`m going to do everything I can, A, to oppose a unqualified person, and push my Republican colleagues in the Senate to recognize this the question of country first.
REID: Senator Ron Wyden, member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, really appreciate you being here, and I thank you.
WYDEN: Thanks for having me.
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