MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show - Transcript: "Senate Democrats demand vote."
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
MADDOW: Joining us live is Congressman Adam Schiff, who is chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Sir, I know today must have been exhausting. I really appreciate you taking the time to be with us tonight.
SCHIFF: Great to be with you.
MADDOW: So, you probably know by now that I`m somebody who follows this story closely. I have read the Mueller report. I paid as much attention to this story as I think is humanly possible. Even still, Robert Mueller to my eye covered a bunch of topics today, particularly in your hearing that I have never expected them to touch. I feel like he sort of cracked open some new avenues of investigation. I did not expect to hear him talking about. Did you learn new information today from Mr. Mueller that you didn`t know before heading into today`s hearing?
SCHIFF: You know, it wasn`t so much I think for those of us on the committee new information and some of us have seen the more complete versions of the report, and have a better window into some of the other issues. But it was just new and fresh hearing it from him. And you`re right, he did go beyond the report. The report doesn`t talk about the lack of ethics, the lack of morality, the lack of patriotism that characterized the Trump campaign. It doesn`t characterize as directly as he did today how the president`s statements are false. And so, it was powerful hearing it from him. And that moment you just played and the questions he had with Peter Welch, that was to me the most chilling, because it was so true. And all of this, of course, is forward-looking. We are protecting ourselves in the next election, and what do we have to expect? And the point I tried to underscore at the end is, we can`t control what the Russians do, but we can control what we do. And if we`re still open for business for foreign intervention, then, God help us.
MADDOW: One of the things that I found interesting today, and I didn`t expect as much detail from Mr. Mueller as we got from him today, was him talking about the relationship between hidden financial ties and compromise by a foreign power. He talked about how financial ties that are elicit, that are potentially illegal, that are hidden and being lied about is perfect leverage for a hostile foreign power to compromise or to extort a number of different people in the president`s orbit, and indeed, the president himself. Now, Mr. Mueller was not specific or at least not definite when asked whether or not his investigation, therefore, looked at the president`s finances and tried to see if the financial records would show evidence of those kinds of ties or might be able to detail the ways in which the president may have been compromise by those things. Do you have clarity on whether or not Mueller and his team looked at the president`s finances and looked at his taxes?
SCHIFF: I don`t think the Mueller team looked at his finances. I don`t think they followed the money. I think they really -- and the document bear this is out. They viewed their mission as quite narrow, looking at these two vectors of Russian intervention, the social media campaign, the hacking and dumping operation, and then narrowly trying to assess, did the Trump campaign conspire with either one of those two things? Beyond that, they really didn`t look. And the one glimpse we got today is when Mueller said, we got this counterintelligence information, this compromised information and we fed it out to the bureau. So, I think Mueller viewed his job as to determine if he can prosecute on these issues, some of the other cases were farmed out. But in terms of whether he observed the red line that Donald Trump tried to set around his finances, he wouldn`t answer directly, but indirectly, it looks very much like that line was observed.
MADDOW: Does that create new urgency or new justification for Congress being able to inspect those records themselves? Does that bolster what they are pursuing in court as the president sues to stop compliance with subpoenas for those kinds of materials?
SCHIFF: It does and it certainly underscores just how falsely the argument is if Mueller never looked into the issues of compromise, then the nation is exposed. If we can`t tell and at the end of the hearing, Mueller talked about whether -- you know, he couldn`t speculate about whether Trump is motivated because he still wants to do that Moscow Trump Tower deal, he knows he needs Putin`s approval, and that`s why he can`t bring himself to criticize Putin, or it`s something else. And the fact that we the American people also don`t know, that we have to speculate is the problem. And so, I think it falls on the Congress to do oversight, to make sure the president is pursuing policies on our interest, not on his financial interests, that people don`t have clearances, that shouldn`t have clearances, and we are starting to get some of those answers, Rachel. We had a lengthy meeting with one of Mueller`s staff a week or so ago on the counterintelligence issues, but there is a lot we don`t know. There`s still a lot the Justice Department is withholding and we`re going to fight to make sure we get that information.
MADDOW: Over the course of the two hearings today as the hours stitched together and as Robert Mueller, I don`t think increasingly, but persistently seemed old. He seemed like he was struggling at times to hear what was going on, maybe struggling to comprehend compound questions to him when they were put in terms that were complex. Robert Mueller today and I don`t mean this in an ad hominem way, he did just seem sort of less vital than I think I expected and a lot of people expected. As that persisted over the course of the day today, and I don`t mean to suggest that he is incapable. It just seemed that he wasn`t totally on top of everything he was talking about. My mind kept wondering to the gentleman who was sitting next to him during the testimony before your hearings, described as deputy special counsel, Aaron Zebley, and my mind kept wondering to the guys who are sitting behind him, who are some of the senior members of his team. You mentioned that you have spoken with at least one member of Mueller`s team recently in a closed door hearing about counterintelligence matters. Do you expect you will be calling Mr. Zebley or Mr. Quarles, or Mr. Van Grack, or any of the other members of Mueller`s team, particularly Mueller himself today to try to get more from his team who seems to have done the work about what their investigation was like?
SCHIFF: Well, you may have noticed this morning that one person was particularly unhappy that Aaron Zebley was there and sworn in as a witness. And, of course, that was the president who was tweeting about it. There`s another person who was very unhappy about it was Bill Barr. The Justice Department did not want him there. We wanted that precedent, frankly, that these members of the team can be called as witnesses. They can be sworn in. They can provide testimony that the DOJ trying to stone wall that and make some claim of a policy just doesn`t hold water. And this is more true for people who have left the Justice Department. We are going to press to get the answers and whatever format and for whatever means that we need to. I think the short answer is going to be some of this work was done, we`ll find out what work was done. And where there was no follow-up, where they were not allowed to pursue leads or allegations, we`ll do that ourselves. But at the end of the day, we want to make sure we leave no stone unturned when it comes to protecting the country from people who may be compromised.
MADDOW: Let me just press on that a little bit, Mr. Chairman. Should we expect open hearings with other members of Mueller`s team?
SCHIFF: I wouldn`t rule it out. You know, we think that today`s hearing was very powerful and very important in bringing that report to life and hearing it through Mueller`s own words, and we look for other opportunities to do that, too. Some of the counterintelligence questions, it may be more difficult, particularly if it involves either ongoing litigation or classified matters. But where we can, we would like to do hearings like this in public that help inform the nation of the dangers that we face.
MADDOW: Yes. I think if today (ph) -- we learned anything today, it`s about the power of an open hearing. I know that in intelligence committee, you have to do a lot of things behind closed doors because of classification issues. But to the extent that the country has the opportunity to hear these stories and particularly to hear it from the horse`s mouth, boy, is there an appetite for it? And, boy, is it valuable? Congressman --
SCHIFF: Absolutely. And this is why, Rachel, the judiciary is working so hard to get Don McGahn to come in and testify. That`s also very important.
MADDOW: Congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee -- sir, I know it`s a big day. Thanks for helping us understand it. Much appreciate it.
SCHIFF: Thank you.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source