MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show - Transcript: "Mueller Deputy Aaron Zebley will be sworn in."
Interview
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MADDOW: Members of the Judiciary Committee, Democrats all, who are preparing tonight for what will be a huge moment tomorrow morning as their committee begins questioning at 8:30 in the morning of special counsel Robert Mueller. Joining us now is Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon. She`s newly elected. She`s on her first term. An accomplished attorney before entering Congress. She`s now vice chair of the Judiciary Committee. Congresswoman Scanlon, thank you so much for joining us. I know you have a lot of things you`d rather be doing right now than talking on TV.
REP. MARY GAY SCANLON (D-PA): Well, thank you for having me.
MADDOW: So let me ask you about some of the news we`ve learned over the course of this hour that we`re still trying to make sense of. We`ve learned just in the last few minutes that in the intelligence committee, in the afternoon after Robert Mueller`s testimony to your committee, Aaron Zebley, his deputy, who was variously described as the deputy special counsel or his chief of staff on the special counsel`s office, he`s going to be sworn in alongside Robert Mueller in the afternoon session with Intel and will also be giving testimony, also be answering questions from members. As far as we understand it, at your committee, Zebley will be there but he won`t be sworn in. He`ll be there purely to advise Mueller on his own responses. Is that still operative at this time?
SCANLON: You know, that`s -- that`s the last part that I heard. I was on my way over here, so I haven`t been party to any last-minute negotiations.
MADDOW: In terms of Mr. Zebley`s role here, can you tell us anything about how the committee, how you, yourself, feel about the prospect of having him there? I think we`ve all been imagining Robert Mueller sitting there on his own in a full packed hearing room of people listening closely. What I`ve been fanaticizing about the whole time is him and his whole team answering questions for about three weeks on end so we can get an answer to anything. What do you think about the prospect of his deputy, his chief of staff sitting there with him?
SCANLON: Well, as you know, we`ve been very anxious to get Mr. Mueller as well as some other witnesses before the committee. So, I say, you know, the more the merrier. If we can bring along Don McGahn and Ms. Donaldson and some of the other witnesses we`ve subpoenaed, I`d like them all to come by.
MADDOW: Surely, though, Mueller`s own team is another matter. There had been some discussion that they would be testifying in a closed session that would sort of augment what we were able to see in open session. Do we know if there is any plan for a closed session at this point with anyone from Mueller`s team?
SCANLON: My understanding is that there isn`t at this point, but Mr. Mueller also did give us some additional time with himself. I think it`s a great idea, as one of your previous guests noted, you know, something of this complexity, the amount of time that was spent, the length of the report, the amount of evidence underlying it, I think -- I think it`s a good thing if we`re able to get more information by having one of his deputies there who can assist and help move the hearing along.
MADDOW: What can you tell us about how prep is going? We saw tape from members of your committee coming out of what we understand to be a lengthy prep session on the Democratic side this afternoon and into this evening. What`s that process been like? And how do you feel about it?
SCANLON: Well, I mean, we`ve been preparing for some time. We`ve had several months to get ready for this, and there`d been a number of delays. So it`s been an ongoing process. I think as Mr. Jeffries noted, everybody is taking it very seriously. We don`t want this to be some kind of public spectacle. We want people to understand what`s in the report.
MADDOW: In terms of the Justice Department here, they`ve had a sort of interesting role. The Justice Department obviously is no longer Special Counsel Mueller`s employer, nor do they employ any of the staff that have been invited to testify, as far as we know. Nevertheless, the Justice Department last night sent a sort of cross shot across the bow to Director Mueller, saying in response to these subpoenas that he received, including from your committee, that his testimony should be very circumspect. That it should not go outside the four corners of his report. That he should not talk about any decision-making process within the special counsel`s office. That he should not talk about any charging decisions or anyone who is an uncharged third party. That, of course, would include the president and anyone related to the president who hasn`t been charged. There has definitely been pushback, including from your chairman, Jerry Nadler, that that Justice Department guidance is improper. We`ve seen a similar pushback tonight in the form of a letter from Chairman Schiff at Intel. What do you make about the Justice Department and their effort to sort of shape what`s about to happen here?
SCANLON: Well, shape what`s going to happen or continue to assist the president in his efforts to suppress the Mueller report. I mean, the first thing that we had happen was just nondisclosure of the report. Then, we get a redacted report. Then, we have the Justice Department and the White House saying that witnesses can`t appear or even when they do appear, as Hope Hicks did, not allowing them to answer questions and then we still have not receive the underlying evidence. We`ve only received a little bit of it. So, it`s a continuing effort to suppress the findings of the Mueller report and the underlying evidence. It`s not surprising. It`s very disappointing.
MADDOW: Do you expect that Robert Mueller will follow those strictures as laid out by the Justice Department or do you expect that he will take a similar view of that instruction that you and your chairman have?
SCANLON: You know, I -- I don`t know. I think that`s the $50 million question right now. You know, Bob Mueller has shown that, you know, he`s very thorough, but he`s very much a rule follower and I`m just not sure how he`s going to view these rules. We know that he was distressed, shall we say, by the way that Attorney General Barr tried to shape his report and mischaracterize his report. I don`t know if that will inform his testimony tomorrow. We are looking forward to hearing his statement, which I understand has not been provided to the Department of Justice.
MADDOW: Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon, vice chair of the Judiciary Committee -- if a decision changes tonight about Aaron Zebley and whether he`s going to be sworn in and testifying to your committee like he is to intelligence, please, will you call us tonight even if it`s late and we`ll get it on the air?
SCANLON: If I hear that, I will be happy to do so.
MADDOW: Thank you very much. Not fair of me at all to ask you on the air.
But thank you, ma`am. Much appreciated.
SCANLON: OK. Thank you.
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