MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Trump: "Epstein pleads not guilty."

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. That was Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta defending the lenient plea deal he struck with Jeffrey Epstein when he was U.S. attorney in Florida, a deal that spared the accused sex trafficker from being federally indicted in 2007. Acosta has now joined a list of -- a long list of administration officials who have been scrutinized for questionable ethics, many of whom have left their jobs under a cloud. You`re looking at pictures of them now. Now "The Washington Post" reports that, according to current and former officials of Trump world, there was no substantial vetting done on Acosta until after Trump decided to nominate him -- in other words, they picked him, and then they checked him out -- despite the fact some details of Acosta`s deal with Epstein -- or Epstein -- were known at the time of his confirmation hearing. Eight Democratic senators, by the way, to keep this even-steven here, still voted for their Republican colleagues to confirm him -- with them. And, today, Senator Amy Klobuchar was among the first of the Democratic presidential counties to call for Acosta to resign following Epstein`s indictment yesterday. Criticizing the leniency of Epstein`s 2007 plea deal, Senator Klobuchar tweeted: "Since when do underage girl sex ring traffickers get to go to their office every day while they serve their time? I didn`t vote for former Florida U.S. attorney Acosta to begin with, and he should step down." Joining me right now is the senator herself, Senator Amy Klobuchar. What does this look like to you?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

MATTHEWS: How did Acosta come to give this guy this sweetheart deal, where he could go to work every day, treat him like he committed a small crime, with mitigating circumstances? What were the -- why would he do this?

KLOBUCHAR: When I was a prosecutor, you always -- every day, you go to work with a mission, that you`re going to do your job without fear or favor, that it doesn`t matter if it`s a white-collar defendant, if someone breaks into an office with a crowbar or they do it on a computer. It`s still a crime. In this case, you have got an incredibly wealthy guy who was preying on kids, preying on young girls. And that`s why, Chris, this was so wrong. And let me -- it`s wrong on several levels, one, that there wasn`t this thorough investigation to get the right sentence and to get this done and not let him off and go to work every day. But, secondly, a federal judge has already said it was wrong because the victims were not consulted about the sentence. This was pled out.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: You can have plea agreements, but the victims have to be told about it, whether it`s in state law or federal law. And that`s where this is just completely wrong to me.

MATTHEWS: It`s so sneaky. But why -- there is sex -- there are requirements -- there are requirements, you say, as a prosecutor, for victims. They have rights.

KLOBUCHAR: Right. And, sometimes, they may not agree with the sentence, but you have to tell them about it. And we would have several meetings with people in my office. We had victim -- many, many people that worked in this area -- so they would talk it through with the victim, why we had to do a plea agreement, if we had to, what happened in a trial. It`s a big part of your job, is to explain this to victims, because they have to have trust in our system, no matter what the outcome is. That being said, we know this outcome wasn`t right. This was a sex trafficking ring. These -- and, by the way, sometimes people refer to young victims like this as prostitutes. These are young kids. And we have worked very hard -- I led the bill on the human trafficking -- to make sure we look at these kids as the victims that they are, and they get help and services. And then that`s the only way you can go after the pimps and the guys that are using them and are running the sex…

MATTHEWS: Fourteen-year-old girls.

KLOBUCHAR: That`s what it was. And it was just wrong.

MATTHEWS: And he was saying, go get your friends to come here?

KLOBUCHAR: He was up -- in that way, he was running a ring. He was getting them to recruit people. He was grooming them. He was giving them a ton of money and saying, help. And, of course, a lot of times, these young girls are afraid to come forward. They think they`re going get in trouble. They don`t want to have anyone know what they`re doing. And that`s why they should be treated as victims. In this case, he gave them a cheap deal, does it in secret, doesn`t tell the victims. And that is the problem with this. He didn`t do his job without fear or favor.

MATTHEWS: Let`s go to the motive of the secretary of labor. You voted against confirmation of this guy. So you look good on this. The eight Democrats who voted for him must be wondering why they did it. Well, let me ask you about -- I want to ask you about…

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KLOBUCHAR: Well, a lot of this, we have heard later. Right? I didn`t vote for him, but -- and I was concerned about this at the time. Senator Kaine had asked questions. But, remember, some of this has came out later, including the court found that he hadn`t told the victims.

MATTHEWS: Why would the current secretary of labor let him off? What is the motive here?

KLOBUCHAR: I have no idea. And that`s what…

MATTHEWS: This thing about -- this crazy conspiracy notion that somehow Epstein was working as a spy for the United States` interests?

KLOBUCHAR: I got to -- when I had my old job as prosecutor, every time you had a famous person or you had someone with money, you would constantly be getting called from people that knew you, saying, hey, remember, we had a 35-year-old who beat up someone at a Vikings game. And people kept calling me and saying, be careful with the kid. I`m like, he`s not a kid. And I would never call our prosecutors and tell them about these calls, because you are supposed to allow your prosecutors to do their job, no matter who someone`s connected to and who they know. And that`s my concern about what happened here.

MATTHEWS: Well, that`s just like Trump. Well, that`s -- you have just described Trump`s behavior with Michael Flynn.

KLOBUCHAR: That`s right. He was always…

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MATTHEWS: You see he calls up Comey, the head of the FBI, and says, be nice to my buddy.

KLOBUCHAR: That`s what -- you have to allow the law and lawyers to do their job.

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MATTHEWS: I got to ask you about something.

KLOBUCHAR: OK.

MATTHEWS: You have been in all these debates. I don`t know anybody like you in these debates. You have been through them all, so you know what it`s like. You going to have another one coming up at the end of this month.

KLOBUCHAR: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Anyway, columnist Richard Cohen, he`s a liberal, but he`s kind of a tough guy, writes in "The Washington Post" today that: "The field of the presidential candidates are pushing too far left to win a general election next November." He says: "The candidates are campaigning in an America of their own imagination, a bit to the left of Sweden and as radically unified -- or racially unified as one of the old Coke commercials. They pander to the extremes of the early caucus and primary states, thinking they can seduce the middle later on down the road." Now, that`s what I agree -- actually think is going on. I think everybody`s playing to Iowa, where you have a lot of activists, people on the progressive side, progressive left in some cases.They`re all aiming at that target.

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MATTHEWS: And especially on things like -- people like reparations, on things like banning private health insurance, things like that.

KLOBUCHAR: OK. Well, first of all, I still think there is more that unifies us and much more important than when you look at someone like Donald Trump. But second thing, I am not running for chair of the Democratic National Committee. I`m running for president of the United States. And the way you run a campaign…

MATTHEWS: Are you center-left or left?

KLOBUCHAR: I am a proven progressive, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Biden says he is center-left.

KLOBUCHAR: I`m someone that has passed 100 bills.

MATTHEWS: Well, what is -- come on. You`re not willing to say.

KLOBUCHAR: No, I will tell you where I am.

MATTHEWS: OK.
going to everyone else that needs help. So I have some differences with my colleagues on this, and I`m going to continue to make that clear, because the way you win is by looking people in the eye and telling them the truth and building a coalition that doesn`t just win the primary, but wins the general election and allows you to govern.

MATTHEWS: That`s right. You know what? I like -- well, I don`t matter. I`m just hear asking you questions.

KLOBUCHAR: OK.

MATTHEWS: But I like what you said. Anyway, thank you, Senator Amy Klobuchar, actually speaking a lot of common sense. We`re not hearing a lot of that. Up next: retired Marine fighter pilot Amy McGrath.

KLOBUCHAR: Another Amy.

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MATTHEWS: That`s a good name.

KLOBUCHAR: It`s exciting.

MATTHEWS: I`m in love with Amy, right, the old song -- had her sights on Mitch McConnell`s seat. Boy, that`s going to be one tough rigmarole there, rhubarb, as they say in baseball. Can a moderate Democrat take on a take-no-prisoners campaigner like McConnell in a state that went for Trump by almost 30 points? And can she win? We will ask her. We will ask her how she`s going to do it after this. Don`t go anywhere.

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