MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Trump: "Department of Justice reverses course."

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Donald Trump is trying to make sure that he is playing offense, not defense when former special counsel Robert Mueller testifies in front of Congress in 14 days. Last night, the Trump campaign announced the president will be holding a rally in Greenville, North Carolina on that same day as Mueller is testifying. On Capitol Hill, the president`s Republican allies, meanwhile, are preparing a coordinated effort to, quote, try to undercut Mueller`s credibility and paint him as a political pawn and Democrats` efforts to try to undermine the president. Trump has already tried to intimidate Mueller to deliver his testimony to Congress. For more, I`m joined by Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois, member of the House Intelligence Committee, and Ken Dilanian, NBC News national security reporter. Congressman, what do you make of these three salients, if you will, points of attack. They`re going to try to intimidate the guy into not saying anything more than he put in the report. The Republicans in your committees are going to go after him probably for Strzok and his girlfriend and all the bad stuff, the bad apple stuff, and all that stuff. And, of course, he is holding a rally. I guess the rally can`t do much about. But what about -- you`re going to be sitting there with each Democrat getting five minutes to make their own pitch. Meanwhile, the Republicans apparently have a coordinated campaign to bring up all the dirt on Mueller.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Yes. I think what I`ll point out first is when a special counsel was appointed, there was bipartisan support, talking about the integrity of Mr. Mueller, and that he was the perfect choice. But, of course, when he comes out with a report they don`t quite like, all of that changes. None of this is any different than what they`ve done for the last almost three years, which to act like the president`s political counselor and legal (AUDIO GAP), whatever it does to take to protect the president politically and legally. So, that`s no surprise. At least part of our (AUDIO GAP) probably be involved with defending the special counsel at that time.

MATTHEWS: What about getting him to go a bit further than he did in his report and what he said in those eight minutes in that later statement?

QUIGLEY: I think that`s a great point. Look, I have the greatest admiration for the special counsel, but he doesn`t get to decide what he is going to talk about. There are very fair questions about what happened to the counterintelligence investigation, where all this began. Talk to us about Trump Tower Moscow and what they gleaned, the possibility of money laundering. We know there were people working on the counterintelligence investigation. What did they learn are, where is that information, are they still working on this project, and what is the role of the FBI? So, a lot of questions for us to understand how the president was compromised. (AUDIO GAP) as a result of the president being compromised?

MATTHEWS: Ken, the bullying tactic of the president. It was almost he better not go -- he doesn`t have any authority in the institution over this guy Mueller. He has no right to tell him what to say.

KEN DILANIAN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I think he is scared, because Robert Mueller, if he could speak freely, could really powerfully criticize the president in a way that almost no one else can. This is a life-long Republican, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

DILANIAN: He volunteered for the Vietnam War when Donald Trump was in Studio 54, who led the FBI after 9/11. And what he didn`t do in his report, he said there was no conspiracy, no crime that he could prove, but he didn`t pass moral judgment on the Trump campaign`s flirtation with the Russians. He didn`t say, you know what? This is a terrible idea that they did this. It was bad for the country. If he says that, that could be bad for Donald Trump. He`s also going to demolish Trump`s two big talking points that Mueller found no collusion and Mueller exonerated Trump. Neither of those things are true. Mueller said it in the eight-minute news conference, but now he is going to talk about it in detail. And let`s not forget, that news conference moved the polls on impeachment.

MATTHEWS: Let`s talk than for a moment with the congressman. Congressman, you`re a political kind of guy. Tell me how you can move that dial. Can you move it from 20-some percent who support impeachment to, say, 40 percent? How do you do that when your big day comes two weeks from now?

QUIGLEY: Yes, I think members have to be very judicious in their time and not give a four and a half minute speech and give the special counsel 30 seconds to respond.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

QUIGLEY: I think this needs to be a coordinated plan to allow the special counsel to tell the truth. And you`re absolutely right. In eight minutes, he moved the dial. He is going to have four hours in front of the American people. It`s our job to set him up in a position where he`s allowed to go into this in more detail, tell the American people. And if anything, if all he does in four hours is to go into more detail as the fact that the president was not exonerated and why, I think that in itself moves the needle. He`ll have the opportunity to go into detail in a manner that matters. When I would write long briefs in criminal cases that a three-judge panel would still have a lot of questions, and obviously, the members of the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee will have those kinds of questions.

MATTHEWS: Has Speaker Pelosi told you folks on the committees that are hearing the testimony from two weeks from now what her standard is in terms of changing her position and going along with impeachment? Is there any signal what the standard would be?

QUIGLEY: I think that the speaker`s public stance has been her private stance. I think she understands how to count noses in the Senate and what it might mean from a political point of view. I do think that the needle is moving within the caucus and within the American people. I think asking for the impeachment inquiry will help us from a legal point of view. I call it obstruction after the fact. After the Muller report has been out, the Trump administration`s obstruction has only got worse. If we`re going get to the truth, we`re going have to move forward with the inquiry.

MATTHEWS: Thanks so much, Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois. Thank you, Ken Dilanian. Have a nice weekend both of you, folks.

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