MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Trump: "Lawmakers visit migrant detention facilities."

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MATTHEWS: NBC News was not present and could not verify that particular allegation. But, today, the Homeland Security Office of the inspector general issued a new management alert, flagging dangerous overcrowding and prolonged detention of children and adults at Border Patrol facilities in the Rio Grande Valley. The inspector general`s office released these images showing the overcrowded conditions and noted that -- quote -- "Senior managers at several facilities raised security concerns about their agents and detainees. One called the situation a ticking time bomb." The alert also mentioned that 31 percent of children held in custody in the region have been held longer than the 72 hours permitted by law and had no access to showers. The chairman of the House Oversight Committee, Elijah Cummings of Maryland, has invited the acting secretaries of DHS and Customs and Border Patrol to testify about the separation and treatment of migrant children and allegations of overcrowding. They were first invited last week, but neither has confirmed plans to attend the hearings. For more, I`m joined by U.S. Congressman Marc Veasey, who joined the delegation in Texas, and Clara Long, Human Rights Watch deputy Washington director. Congressman, thank you for joining us. And, you know, what everybody watching would benefit from is just a really good description of what you saw as an eyewitness down there.

REP. MARC VEASEY (D-TX): Well, what we saw was horrible, particularly when we talked with some of the detainees that were in the holding cells at the first facility that we visited, where we were told that they were -- if they asked for a drink of water, that the guards told them to drink out of the toilet, that they had gone days without taking showers. And, of course, when you take those tours, you have to give 48 hours` notice, as a member of Congress, before you can take the tour. And, of course, they try to do everything they can to clean the facility up. So much -- much of the space at the facilities that we visited were empty, particularly like the outdoor sleeping areas and the outdoor holding areas in the heat. They were completely empty. But I believe everything that those -- the migrants told us while we were there, just based on the experience that we had with some of the personnel there with Customs. We told -- we told them that it was not a good idea for us, for instance, to go out and have a press conference with all of those hecklers nearby. And they were just like, no, it wouldn`t be fair if we -- if we move them away. And, of course, they were out there screaming and yelling and what have you. And they did absolutely nothing to help the situation whatsoever. And you would think that, after finding out that there was a Facebook page where people were making racist, misogynistic comments, that they would do everything possible to make it look like that they had the safety of the American public at the -- at the front. And they absolutely, in my opinion, did not. And based on what I saw and read on those Facebook pages I was in the ProPublica article, I 100 percent think that those migrants were telling us the complete truth about their treatment in these facilities, because it goes hand in hand.

MATTHEWS: Clara, let me ask you about the cases. I think it may be one incident of this Border Patrol person saying go drink the water from the toilet. Now, is that literal? I heard it was the same sort of tank of water that had both a faucet at the top to drink from, a fountain, if you will, and then the water used for the toilet. But I don`t even understand this. Explain that -- that appliance, if you will, where people were asked to go drink from.

CLARA LONG, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Well, right. I mean, I think the appliance is very much what you`re saying. It`s a pony wall with -- it doesn`t go up all the way to the ceiling, so there`s no privacy, no real privacy, to use the toilet in these cells, where you have dozens of people in them. And then, based on what I have seen and heard described countless times, it`s a toilet with a tap on top of it. So the water actually comes up to the back of the toilet. Now, the water doesn`t necessarily have contact, to be fair, with the toilet water, but a lot of people find that…

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: See, what I`m confused about, because life is complicated…

LONG: Yes.

MATTHEWS: … we heard the other day -- last night on the program, we reported that there were some Border Patrol people who are really so concerned about the welfare of the -- of the people they were detaining, that they have spent their own money to feed them. And now I hear these bad apples that say, go drink out of the toilet. It just seems -- what`s going on here?

LONG: Drinking out the toilet -- asking people to drink out of that tap that comes out of the toilet is common practice across the entire border. I was part of this team of attorneys and…

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: But it didn`t mean go drinking out of the toilet bowl?

LONG: It`s not drinking out of the toilet bowl.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

LONG: I haven`t -- I haven`t heard an accountant out of the toilet bowl. Drinking out of the back of the toilet.

MATTHEWS: Yes, I understand. Well, Jerry Nadler, of course, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, criticized the Trump administration today for allowing migrants to be held in these conditions. Here he is earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): All the people who are in those detention facilities are migrants. They all claim asylum. Some of them are entitled under our law to asylum. Some are not. All are entitled to humanity, to decent treatment, to decent judicial adjudication, and not to be tortured or regarded as refuse. All the people in the administration who have done this, who have permitted it are guilty of child abuse, which is a crime. We ought to prosecute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Let me go to the congressman on that. That`s strong language about prosecution of public officials. What do you make of it?

VEASEY: You know, exactly what Jerry is saying on prosecution. I mean, I do think that, if people`s rights have been violated, and there have been criminal acts that have been committed, of course they should be prosecuted. But I think, immediately, that there should be an investigation. And I don`t know if you heard, Chris, Elijah Cummings, who`s the chair of the Oversight Committee. He has announced that there will be hearings to look into these allegations on how migrants retreated on this Facebook page.

MATTHEWS: Right.

VEASEY: And, again, if people have crossed the line, then they absolutely do need to be prosecuted. There`s no question about that.

MATTHEWS: Let me go to Clara on a couple of points. First of all, give us the -- when you have gone through these camps, what do you see? Describe it to a person who`s never been there.

LONG: All right, so there are concrete cells, benches around the sort of outside of them, and then, as I said, these pony walls with the toilets behind.

MATTHEWS: What is a pony wall?

LONG: A pony wall is like a short wall that doesn`t go up all the way to the ceiling, so just, say, goes up to your waist or something. And, in a lot of cases -- and you have seen those -- we have seen those pictures that the OIG released today. You will have so many people in there, that not everybody can sit or lie down at the same time.

MATTHEWS: Is what you see when you`re down there with these pictures? These pictures we`re looking at right now, that`s what you see?

LONG: Mm-hmm. Yes.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about these groups of hecklers. Who`s heckling who?

LONG: You know, you get a lot of people who I think want to make a political statement here.

MATTHEWS: Are they on the right?

LONG: On the right.

MATTHEWS: And they don`t like immigrants?

LONG: Right. I mean, the congressman just mentioned this Facebook group. You have this-- you have 9,500 Border Patrol agents on a secret Facebook group. That`s about half of the agents the U.S. has.

MATTHEWS: And what are they saying on that?

LONG: And what they`re saying on that Facebook group are anti-immigrant statements, racist memes, joking about the deaths of children in Border Patrol stations. I think congressional oversight, investigations are needed and overdue. On top of that, Congress needs to work to reinforce transparency and accountability in the agency itself, which has too long been allowed to continue…

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Congressman Veasey, go back to something that you know about.

VEASEY: And -- and…

MATTHEWS: What did it feel like when you saw people heckling? They were heckling the migrants. They were also heckling you, who are showing an interest in their welfare.

VEASEY: Yes. Well, of course, the first thing that you think of is your own safety. We`re in Texas, and everybody has guns, particularly people like in the crowd that were part of the hecklers that were there wearing the MAGA hats. And you worry about your safety, particularly when the people that are entrusted to guard you are probably members of that page. Like it was just mentioned, about half of the members of Customs and Border Patrol are members of this Facebook page. And these are the same people that we were counting on to protect us from these people that were screaming terrible things, that were distorting people`s names, making them into slur words. As we walked down, the local congresswoman, Veronica Escobar, they kept distorting her first name to make it derogatory. And they were just saying terrible things about everybody there, about migrants, screaming things about Planned Parenthood. And it was -- it was a complete circus. And I just don`t think that the Border Patrol people did anything. And we asked them. We said, hey, we know that these people are going to be heckling us. We`re not going to be able to hear. We`re not trying to do anything to stomp on their First Amendment rights, but why don`t we just move them back just a little bit? And they refused to do it. One of the law enforcement officials even suggested, well, why don`t you just cancel the press conference? Like, that was their suggestion on dealing with this rowdy group. It was definitely the worst I have seen of any press conference I have ever been to.

MATTHEWS: Just give me a -- where exactly did all this hell break loose today? Where was it, Texas or Florida? Where was it?

VEASEY: Yesterday in Florida on the border is the -- is the heckling that we were subject to, when we were there visiting the Clint facility there.

MATTHEWS: OK. OK. Thank you very much, U.S. Congressman Marc Veasey of Texas and Clara Long. Thank you so much.

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