MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: President Trump's uncoerced confessions
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Let`s take that stride at right now. We`ve got a democratic member of Congress joining us right now. By the way, we all know the democrats retook the House of Representatives by flipping a number of formerly republican suburban seats back last year. Congressman Jefferson Van Drew, who flipped one of districts seats in South Jersey does not support impeachment, told The New York Times, if we just let this overshadow all these other issues for a longer period of time, too long a period of time, we are really endangering the election for the democrats. Congressman Van Drew joins us now. Congressman, thank you. Congratulations on winning where I grew up in Ocean City, New Jersey. I know about the area. I think I know as politics. Why are you opposed to action like Rob Reiner is calling for right now to get this train rolling and have a vote eventually on impeachment?
REP. JEFFERSON VAN DREW (D-NJ): Unless we find something new or unusual, something different that we didn`t see before, it seems that this just keeps continuing. So, first, it was going to be the Mueller report was really going to give us the information, and it did. I read it from the first page to the last page, and it gave some information. And certainly there are some distasteful sections and parts of that that really are concerning, but not high crimes and misdemeanors, at least in my opinion and obviously in other people`s opinions as well. And then it was going to be once he testified, it will come to life and it would bring the whole issue to life, and then we would move forward with impeachment. And, of course, again, it didn`t. So now we`re trying a different tact. And I understand that and I want to make sure that everything is as it should be as well, but why didn`t we do that earlier? It keeps dragging on and on and on. And here is my issue. Here is what I believe, and I`m talking politics now and maybe a little bit government as well. We have lots of big issues. I had somebody email me today and said, you know, a record number of individuals passed over this last week from drug overdoses. And she said, you know, it`s more important that we start really dealing with that issue rather than keep letting this just overwhelm everything, or infrastructure or, you know, how about healthcare? How about, you know, the cost of prescription drugs? How about the way our veterans are treated in veterans` homes? How about are we really going to be able to shore up Medicare and are we going to be able to take care of social security? And I can go on and on and on. Those are the issues that at the end of the day, blue collar, average democrats that we used to have and still do, but they really care about. And so there are folks -- and let me wrap up with this.
MATTHEWS: Okay, you`re wrapped already. I mean, Congressman, we`ve got to get Rob a chance here. Rob Reiner, you heard the case against moving on an impeachment. What do you say?
REINER: I couldn`t disagree more with the Congressman, because all of the issues that he talked about, of course, are critical. None of them will ever, ever pass when we don`t have the White House and ultimately the Senate. We passed a million bills already, and they lay dormant at Mitch McConnell`s feet. That`s not going to do anything, And if it didn`t --
VAN DREW: That`s because we are so involved. We are so involved with this only, or at least the perception of this only.
REINER: No, no, no.
VAN DREW: Look, I`m there every day. So let me finish for a second.
MATTHEWS: Congressman, do you think the seats like yours are in danger if the democrats move toward impeachment?
VAN DREW: Absolutely. I don`t even know that mine is. You know, I was fortunate. I won by a good number more votes than many of the other ones did. But folks have to realize it was middle democrats, middle of the road democrats that created the majority, and that their voice counts too, and that we have to -- and, by the way, if something really new comes up, something big that we didn`t have before that really shows an impeachable offense, absolutely, any president, we should do it.
MATTHEWS: I just want to hit you with two possibilities, and then Rob and then Susan back in here (ph). Well, I just want to make one point. This is fundamental. I think it`s the main point. If this president gets away with this, whether he gets re-elected or not, he gets away with it. He gets away with it saying, I can play ball with the Russians or any foreign adversary, any enemy of the United States, I can play ball with. He said that again the other day. He said, I`m going to do what happen next time. They`ve got some dirt for me, I`ll use it again. He also said a president can do anything he wants. There can`t be an obstruction of justice case made against the President under Article 2 of the Constitution. Because under Article 2, according to Trump, he can do anything he wants with the executive. He can tell the judiciary to do anything he wants. He can tell a Special Counsel to do anything he wants. What happens if he gets away with that, Congressman, gets away with it?
VAN DREW: Well, first of all, nobody agrees with that. And he says many things that many folks find very disheartening. But that isn`t the point. What happens if we literally get to election time and, you know, we get out there, and we`re going to be out in the street a lot, and that`s something I do, and you know, that because you know my area, and that`s quite frankly how I got elected numerous times. And the bottom line is if what we`re going to say to people, well, we presided over a failed impeachment. That`s all our major accomplishment in two years, that`s why you flipped districts, that`s why you changed the majority. I don`t think that does the job. Now, if there is something real there, brand-new that comes up now, I use those words, brand new, because I don`t know why now the Russian issue all of the sudden became a bigger issue than it was a week ago, a month ago, six months ago, a year ago. You know, it seems like we`re constantly trying to move on to do something else, and the bottom line is I want us to do good stuff, and we can. The reason that -- one of the reasons that we`re not getting certain things done with the other side is because we`re always attacking them.
MATTHEWS: Okay. Let me go back to that. First of all, Congressman, we talked about the Russian issue every single night here for about two years. So we have -- this isn`t a newbie for us. Rob, your last thought here.
REINER: First of all, you don`t know what the polling is going to be. You don`t know. I would make the case that it will be great politics for the democrats to stand up and hold this guy accountable. Second of all, you need more to see? There were five hard examples of obstruction of justice laid out in the Mueller report. What else do you need? The guy is working with the Russians. He says he is going to continue working with the Russians. The Russians are already playing. We`ve seen the Senate Intelligence Committee tell us that they`re playing right now and they`re working hard to defeat us. Are we now saying that we`re just going to give ourselves over to the Russians? We beat them in the cold war, and they`re beating us now in the cyber war. And if we don`t stand up to them, it could be the end of our democracy. And I`m sorry if you lose your seat, but we`ve got to stand up for democracy.
VAN DREW: Now, we absolutely need to stand up to the Russians. We absolutely need to stand up to the Russians.
MATTHEWS: Susan?
PAGE: Here is a debate that`s going on within the Democratic Party. How do you hold the President accountable? Do you hold him accountable by impeaching him or by defeating him in next year`s election? Is that the better way?
VAN DREW: Both.
MATTHEWS: Okay. Congressman Jefferson Van Drew, thank you. You`re on the front lines, sir. I appreciate you coming on. I know your district is going to be a tough one either way. I know about that district. It is not a left wing district by any means. Thank you.
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