MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Trump: "I am the least racist person."

Interview

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I`m joined right now by two people that can talk about this, Democratic Congressman Denny Heck of Washington, who is on the House Intelligence Committee. And Elise Jordan is with "TIME" magazine. Congressman, why is the president picking Boo Radley to be head of national intelligence?

(LAUGHTER)

REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA): I don`t think…

MATTHEWS: This guy is a total partisan hack. Your thoughts?

HECK: Well, Chris, first of all, I think it`s important that nobody underestimate John`s native intellectual prowess. This is a smart guy. But he has, in fact, two very hard questions to answer. House members don`t have advise and consent, but if I were in the Senate, here are the two hard questions he has to answer. Number one, how are you qualified to do this job? It`s important to remember that the statute that created the Office of National Intelligence specifically requires that the director have extensive experience. Seven months on the Intelligence Committee does not constitute extensive experience. And the second question is, what is the evidence that he can speak truth to power? If ever there were a position in the federal government where we know it is important for the occupant to speak truth to power to the president, it is this one. They must be cold-blooded, clear-eyed and dispassionate in their assessment of our national security issues and intelligence issues. We do not need a cheerleader. We do not need, frankly, another Bill Barr at the head of DNI, period.

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MATTHEWS: Congressman, do you truth this guy, your colleague, to give an honest presidential briefing each day?

REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA): So I don`t know John that well, despite the fact that I served on Intel Committee. In fact, quick funny story, Chris. I got on to the elevator at the apartment building I live in late last year, and there was a fellow standing there in a suit with a congressional security pin on. I didn`t recognize him at all. I found myself saying, I`m sorry, I don`t know who you are. And he said, I`m John Ratcliffe from Texas. So I really don`t know him that well. I -- based on any observations I had on his performance in the Intel Committee, and thus far appears or the more of a cheerleading role than it is of a dispassionate assessment of the facts at hand. But then again, what I think he`s been doing is auditioning for the job.

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HECK: Well, Elise is spot on, because it`s not just John, Ambassador Negroponte. Every director of national intelligence since has had far more national security and intelligence service and experience than Congressman Ratcliffe has.

MATTHEWS: Do you think, Congressman, that he is going to pursue as DNI if he gets the job, that he`ll pursue these theories about the beginnings of the Mueller investigation?

HECK: I don`t think the DNI is the position from which to do that necessarily. I think it`s more over at DOJ. But who knows. I think if history is prologue, that he is going to do and say whatever it is that thinks the president wants him to do. I hate to use the tortured analogy or metaphor, but it`s kind of like asking how high when the president says jump on the way up.

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MATTHEWS: Congressman, tell me why you decided to come out for the impeachment inquiry at this point?

HECK: So, Chris, you know, it was one thing to read the report, which I did, in fact more than once. And it was another thing to talk with my colleagues and my constituents and to listen to their concerns. But I cannot exaggerate to you the impact it had on me to actually sit through that hearing, hear directly from Director Mueller, have the opportunity to ask him questions, and to hear my colleagues ask him questions. I frankly was plunged, and I use that word advisedly, into a state of deep reflection and contemplation on all that I had heard --

MATTHEWS: I lost you there. Anyway, I want to thank -- go ahead. I want to thank Congressman Denny Heck of Washington and Elise Jordan. I do think this guy Ratcliffe bears a resemblance to Boo Radley of literature because being spooky is not a good reputation to have to become a spook.

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