CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Madeleine Dean

Interview

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BLITZER: All right, Pamela, thank you very much, Pamela Brown at the White House.

Let's get some more on the breaking news right now.

Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of Pennsylvania is joining us. She's a member of the Judiciary Committee.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

We saw you at that news conference with the chairman of your committee, Jerry Nadler, who says you're considering articles of impeachment. Two of your colleagues, Congressman Raskin, Swalwell, they call this an impeachment investigation.

How is that different from an impeachment inquiry?

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): There's very little difference.

And I think today was an important, pivotal day. And I think the testimony of Robert Mueller ended the beginning of chapter one, which was the beginning of our oversight in this 116th Congress.

And today marked the beginning of chapter two, a pivot point, where Chairman Nadler laid out part of our legal strategy, seeking the redacted underlying grand jury investigations, as well as seeking to compel Mr. McGahn to come before us, but also saying that we are now in a position to exercise our full Article 1 constitutional powers, which includes an impeachment investigation.

It's where I have thought we needed to go all along. But we certainly needed Mr. Mueller to come before us to help us do that, to bring the case to the American people.

BLITZER: Why not hold a full House vote to formally open an impeachment inquiry?

DEAN: I don't think that -- number one, it's not necessary.

Judiciary has the jurisdiction to do the oversight and the investigation that would include the possibility of bringing forth articles of impeachment. And, at this point, I don't know that that would be successful in the House, because notice what happened here.

The special counsel did two years' worth of work, delivered his confidential report. And then, for a month, the attorney general, Barr, handpicked by this president, did exactly what the president has done, and obstruct the information from the American people , creating public confusion. People actually got news reports that there was no wrongdoing in it,

when there's sweeping wrongdoing by Russia, sweeping wrongdoing by the Trump campaign, who enjoyed the help of a foreign foe, more than 100 contacts with Russians, for their benefit.

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Imagine how shocking that is and how detrimental that is to our rule of law, our system of government, our democracy.

And then, of course, volume two, the extraordinary wrongdoing, the crimes of a president. Once he knew he was under investigation, he tried everything he could to get the special counsel fired or limited or have people lie on his behalf, destroy documents or falsify documents.

It's extraordinary wrongdoing. And I'm so glad special counsel Mueller came before the American people this week to reveal those things to us.

BLITZER: This shift today was clearly designed to bolster the filing your Judiciary Committee did, submitted to a federal judge to get Mueller's secret grand jury materials.

Will that be enough to convince a federal judge?

DEAN: I actually think it is sort of the other way around.

We included in that language of that case that, yes, this is the important pivot to opening an investigation. I think the court, having heard the testimony of Mr. Mueller, understands the urgency of it.

So I think the combined strategy of getting facts before the American people and then using the courts to enforce our powers, our oversight authority, as a co-equal branch of government under the Constitution, Article 1 -- we are the Article 1 power.

I think it's an important time. And I'm confident, with the legal strategy, that the court will come forward and recognize we need that information. The American people deserve the information.

BLITZER: What are you hoping, Congresswoman, to learn from that secret grand jury material?

DEAN: Well, I think you have heard Nancy Pelosi, the chairman of these Oversight committees, including Adam Schiff, say that we have to have the full case.

This is something that is extraordinarily serious. We're talking about the possibility of high crimes and misdemeanors by the president of the United States.

And in order to exercise any kind of impeachment authority, which actually Robert Mueller reveals is the only way for us to go at this time, because he was unable to indict as a result of the Justice Department holding that you can't indict a sitting president, we have to have a full, robust case of facts, of evidence, combined with the law.

You don't go into court with a case this serious or any case, frankly, without all of the facts before us. And that's why we need the grand jury material.

BLITZER: Did the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, sign off on this new strategy by your committee?

DEAN: Yes, absolutely.

The language that Jerry Nadler read in the press conference today was absolutely approved by the speaker. She knows that we have work to do. She understands better than all exactly what is pressing upon the American public.

She had understands the lawlessness, the corruption, the cover-up of this president and this administration. It's unprecedented. The indecency and corruption of this president is unprecedented.

And so while some would love to find some gap or some rift, there really isn't one. She's got a much bigger task at hand. She has to -- she has to corral an entire caucus. She has to lead an entire Congress.

And more than that, she feels the gravity of her responsibility to the American people greater than any of us.

BLITZER: So I just want to be precise. You say the speaker signed off, approved of what you -- you and your committee members are doing, the House Judiciary Committee Democrats are doing right now?

That's a significant development, because she was holding back in recent weeks.

DEAN: Well, I don't know that she was holding back.

She and our House counsel have had a very robust program of going to courts in order to get information about the president's wrongdoings.

But I think today is a very important, pivotal point. And Jerry Nadler revealed to us, the committee, her confirmation of the language, specific language, that was used to tell the court the gravity of what we're doing, that this is also including impeachment investigation.

And I'm glad we're at that point. The American people deserve it. If you heard Mr. Cummings, Chairman Cummings, this week, he pleaded with the American people, pay attention. What's at stake is so grave, that our democracy is at stake.

And you heard Robert Mueller himself. He said he fears this is the new normal, that a presidential campaign would accept the help of a foreign foe, and never call upon law enforcement and say, there's something seriously wrong. We would never want to benefit from a foreign foe's interference in our precious electoral process.

This is an extraordinary time in American history. I'm proud to be a part of a committee and a caucus and a Congress that will hold this president accountable.

BLITZER: If you and your Democratic colleagues on the Judiciary Committee, including Chairman Nadler, were to go ahead and approve articles of impeachment, filing articles of impeachment against the president of the United States, would Nancy Pelosi, the speaker, have to sign off on that as well?

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DEAN: I don't know the answer to that question.

We're doing the investigation. She will be a part of it the whole way along. She will be very well aware of what we're doing, and, more importantly, what we're finding.

And so -- and then -- and that would lead to the possibility of drafting articles of impeachment that could emanate from our committee and move to the floor.

BLITZER: Democratic Congresswoman Jackie Speier, who's for impeachment, says, if Democrats don't take action impeachment by September, you should, in her words, just shut it down.

Do you agree that there's a limited window right now to move forward with impeachment?

DEAN: I believe there's an urgency. I believe there's an absolute urgency.

I feel it in every conversation I have with people on the street or in a taxi ride that I take. The American people feel an urgency. I don't know about September as the deadline. I think that's a very important time that we make sure we dig in.

I know the members of our committee on Judiciary, we are not going to be taking a six-week break or in-district period. We will continue our work.

But I think there is an absolute urgency that we move forward and make sure we uncover all of the facts.

Keep in mind what's going on here. We have an attorney general who has done the exact same thing that this president has done in plain sight and also behind doors, obstruct from the American people the truth of the report.

And know that what our investigation will include will be beyond the four corners of that document. What we will be -- we will also be looking at and other committees will be looking at ongoing violations of the Emoluments Clause, ongoing and previous violations of campaign finance, paying off mistresses days before the election to bury stories. This is extraordinary wrongdoing.

And when I go back to Mr. Mueller, I just want to say something. What an extraordinary American hero, 50 years of service, a biography that is unmatched by anybody. And one of the things that he said that I think was particularly haunting is what he said, if this were not a sitting president, would you have indicted? Yes.

BLITZER: Next week, your committee will move to enforce a subpoena of the former White House counsel Don McGahn.

What's the timeline for getting him to testify? Because, as you yourself just pointed out, the House of Representatives is taking a six week recess right now.

DEAN: Right. And -- but we will not. I assure you of that.

In talking to Chairman Nadler today, they are still in conversations with Don McGahn's folks, trying to come up with any accommodation possible to make sure he obliges and complies with our subpoena.

But I do know -- and Nadler said it today at the press conference -- that, if they cannot come to that accommodation -- and we have tried many, many ways to accommodate Mr. McGahn -- then we will go to court Monday or Tuesday early next week to file a lawsuit to enforce that subpoena.

And what the language that we reviewed today that, as we said, was confirmed and reviewed with the speaker, talking about the possibility of these impeachment investigations, that gives a heightened sense of urgency to the courts.

We will ask for expedited disposition of that case. So I don't know the time frame. The court will set its schedule, but we certainly have added increased urgency to it by the way of our filing.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, thanks so much for joining us.

DEAN: Thank you for having me.

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