CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries
Interview
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BLITZER: Everybody, stand by. I want to go to Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. He's a member of the Judiciary Committee. He's chairman of the House Democratic Caucus.
Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. So, were you disappointed, or do you believe Robert Mueller did accomplish what he needed to do today?
[17:34:55] REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MAJORITY MEMBER, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY: Well, he told a story to the American people based on the facts that were gathered over a 22-month-long investigation. We didn't expect to hear from Robert Redford; we expected to hear from Robert Mueller. And he is a Marine, he is a great American, he is a patriot. He's a talented law enforcement professional. And he laid out a devastating case that compares and contrasts with the lies that have been peddled by Donald Trump out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Donald Trump said the whole Russia thing is a hoax. Bob Mueller made clear that Russia attacked our democracy in a sweeping and systematic fashion. Donald Trump said this whole Russian investigation is a witch-hunt. Bob Mueller made clear that the Trump campaign, at the highest levels, welcomed Russian interference with the election that was designed to benefit Donald Trump.
Donald Trump said that he was totally and completely exonerated. Bob Mueller made clear nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, there was substantial evidence that they uncovered of obstruction of justice committed by the President.
BLITZER: During your questioning of Mueller today, Congressman, you did lay out your case that President Trump obstructed justice, but Mueller told you he didn't necessarily subscribe to your legal analysis. Were you disappointed that he wouldn't give a clear answer on whether or not he believes the President committed obstruction?
JEFFRIES: It was important for him to acknowledge that the three elements of obstruction of justice that we laid out -- an obstructive act, a connection to an official proceeding, and corrupt intent -- were found in terms of the evidence that was laid out in the report.
He didn't resist the questioning in that regard. He acknowledged that those elements had effectively been met. He declined to bring the three elements together at the end, but I didn't expect that to be done. The American people are going to have to decide whether his testimony speaks for itself.
BLITZER: Were you disappointed that Mueller wouldn't say whether or not the President would have been indicted if not for that long- standing Justice Department policy that a sitting president can't be charged or indicted?
JEFFRIES: That is effectively what he said. That's how I perceived his testimony. And, again, Bob Mueller indicated he was going to stick to the script. But much of the script had not been brought to light to the American people because the overwhelming majority of the American people had not read the report. Understandably, given that they are living day-to-day, week-to-week, check to check.
And so that's why today was an important step forward, but it's just the beginning, not the end. We're going to continue to follow the facts, apply the law, and be guided by the constitution.
BLITZER: Throughout both hearings, the Judiciary and Intelligence, Mueller declined to answer a whole bunch of questions that lawmakers were asking him. In general, was he transparent enough, Congressman? Were you satisfied with his testimony?
JEFFRIES: We were satisfied with his testimony to the extent that we understood he was going to stay within the four corners of the report. And he didn't resist Democrats on either the Judiciary Committee or the Intelligence Committee when we pointed him specifically to the devastating findings that had been laid out in both Volume 1 and Volume 2 where, again, he repeatedly found instances of substantial evidence to suggest that the President engaged in obstruction of justice. And he also made clear that obstruction of justice is a serious crime that undermines the rule of law and the very fabric of our legal system in the United States of America. That was important.
BLITZER: Has he -- by our count, at least 93, maybe 94, House Democrats support starting formal impeachment proceedings. Before today's hearing, you were not among those lawmakers. Did Mueller's testimony today change your mind?
JEFFRIES: Well, it's a building block in terms of determining the ultimate accountability that Trump needs to confront based on the fact that we believe, in America, no one is above the law, certainly not the President of the United States of America. I chair the House Democratic Caucus. Part of my job is to make sure that we embrace the opinions and perspectives of every single member within the caucus. We're in the process of having conversations right now about how to move forward.
BLITZER: So, you haven't changed your mind, at least not yet. Is that right?
JEFFRIES: Not yet.
BLITZER: What would it take for you to change your mind?
JEFFRIES: Well, again, we are going to gather all of the information necessary and then collectively decide how best to proceed in terms of accountability for this president and what is the right thing to do to promote the rule of law consistent with the constitution. And to make sure that we proceed in a fashion that keeps the country together.
BLITZER: Because you just said no one is above the law including the President of the United States. So, if impeachment is the only remedy for a president who breaks the law, why are you so -- still so reluctant to join your colleagues in supporting a formal impeachment inquiry?
[17:39:55] JEFFRIES: Well, Mueller seemed to make clear that there were at least two approaches. One, there is the congressional processes as he put it, otherwise known as impeachment, to hold the President accountable. He also opened the door to the notion that upon completion of a president's term, that the President could then be indicted for crimes that were committed in office. There's a variety of different pathways to explore. We want to make sure that we do what the right thing is for this country.
BLITZER: I know you have to run. One final question, I want you to react to what we heard from the President just moments ago when he said this whole thing has been an embarrassment for the Democrats, a waste of time for the Democrats, the Democrats hurt themselves very badly. What do you say to the President?
JEFFRIES: The President hasn't been completely and totally exonerated. He's a complete and total embarrassment. And sooner rather than later, this long national nightmare that is the Trump presidency will be over.
BLITZER: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, thanks so much for joining us.
JEFFRIES: Thank you.
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